Jackk Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 I feel blessed to have a significant other who enjoys adventure and flying, for the sake of flying vs bragging. Thinking of my favorite stops, most were not towered 2
Skates97 Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 16 hours ago, Ragsf15e said: I also forgot about temp/sun comfort. Make sure you don’t get the cold draft in the back seat from the avionics pass through to the battery area. Your wife will tell you. Some closed cell foam can usually fix that. Also, you don’t want your wife or kid getting cooked in the sun at 10,000’, so some static cling uv block is very helpful. I used 90% clear (which is almost undetectable tint) to block all uv. It’s much more comfortable in the airplane and it keeps it cooler on a hot ramp. @Skates97 has details how on his website. I fully covered both back windows with static tint and my copilot window. And the Gila tint is cheap enough I replace it about every 3 years when it starts to lose its clarity. 15 hours ago, Schllc said: I’ve used the Gila film with success. A few others that had more favorable colors were all too rigid to fit on the compound angles of the copilot window. the Gila is very malleable without heat, and laid down really well on the back windows and only acceptable on the copilot side. i ended up just carrying around four or five 10x10 squares and move them around. just try and know where needed as soon as possible. Once the windows are cold it’s hard to make them stick. the whole plane will cost about $60 in film to do. I do the same thing. Keep them folded up in a seat back pocket, once in a cruise climb pull them out, unfold them on the glareshield, and in a few minutes they are warmed up, pliable, and easy to stick wherever needed. 1
Pinecone Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 WRT to personal minima, discuss with your instructor, decide what they will be, write them down and STICK TO THEM. As mentioned there are planning minima, as in, I don't plan the trip if the forecast is less than X. And then practical, as in, you get to the destination and the weather is worse than X, what is the lowest reported, Y, that you will shoot the approach. They may be the same, they may be different. But if your practical minimums are 600 foot ceiling, if it is reported as 599, you divert. Another part is how many tries? If you go missed, do you divert immediately or try again? Do you try a thirs time? Personally, my planning minima are 800 feet and 2 miles. My practical minima are to attempt the approach if weather is report down to published minimums. The only time I would try a second approach is if I saw the runway environment as I went missed, but in general, it is one and move on. Also what about your personal crosswind limits? I had a flight a couple of months ago where, when I took off there were gusts to around 30, direct cross wind at my home field, but forecast to lessen. But I also have 3 airports within about 45 minute drive that have runways that would have been almost direct headwinds. Plan alternates along the route. If the weather is getting worse at your destination, stop before you get there. Less stressful and you can pick locations, planning on the ground before you leave, with the good FBO, hotels, transportation, maybe even commercial flights if you really need to get somewhere. Consider StarLink. Giving your passengers internet access goes a long way to keeping them happy. And the most important tip, to me, go to places THEY want to go to. At least to start, let them pick the destinations. They will put up with more to go where they want to go. 5
IvanP Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 (edited) 2 hours ago, Schllc said: I recently went to my parents home to pick them up and bring them to my house for the holiday. this was the first time they took a long trip in the plane and were excited and loved the convenience. I realized that I still have that exuberance every single time I fly. I still can’t believe I get to do this! I suspect when/if that ends, I will have to take a other look at it… until then I am a little kid every time i think about getting in the cockpit. Same here...getting to wherever we are going is half the fun (sometimes more than half) and the convenience and flexibility we have is a great privilege we enjoy. We live rural CA and the nearest airport with somewhat decent cattle bus connections is about 100 miles away. My plane is hangared at airport about 5 miles from my house. Few years back, my mother was visting from Europe and saw a photo of Yellowstone National Park in a magazine on my coffee table. I made a quick call to the FBO at KWYS and the next morning we flew to Yellowstone and she was able to see the park. No hassles with booking tickets, fighting crowds at the airport, etc. Just a fun spontaneous trip. Edited January 2 by IvanP 2
Schllc Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 2 hours ago, dkkim73 said: ) but sounds insane to others. call me crazy! 1
FlyingDude Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 3,4hr legs. Max 7hrs in a day with wife only. 2,3 hr legs, max 4hr in a day with kids (8,6 yr). I do not allow for food or drinks in the cockpit, so we need to stop to eat, so our leg timing works out. Unless they have genuine interest in flying, you need to keep them comfy and entertained. My kids are growing some interest in piloting ever since I let them sit in the front seat, but that doesnt translate into patience during long XC. Wife has clearly spoken that she actually doesn't enjoy flying GA but she acknowledges that it does save a lot on the door2door block time compared to airlines or driving when traveling to many destinations, so she is "happy to tolerate it". Get your dynamic prop balancing done. My wife noticed it once I got my AP and bought the machine and took a half day to bring it down to quasi 0. Her daily tolerance rose from 3hrs to 8hrs. But she doesn't like driving more that 6,7 hrs anyway, so that's our cap. Stay above turbulence even if that means higher headwinds. The Bluetooth connection into noise canceling headsets combined with panel USB power allows for wife's Netflix binge. Kids have their tablets with headsets. I assume getting starlink could further improve the situation. 3
flyboy0681 Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 This is a very timely thread. I've been flying for 45 years, but the first time I'm planning a cross country trip with my wife. Mine starts in late April with the first stop being New Orleans, then on to visit some presidential libraries (LBJ, Bush's, Truman, Ike), Mount Rushmore and wherever the wind takes us. I'd like to get over to Santa Fe but am skittish about the mountain crossing, having been a flat-lander for all my flying career. Am I being too cautious or is it a valid concern for someone with no mountain experience? Our maximum aloft time is 3.5 hours for each leg with a two leg maximum, due to cramped quarters and aging bladders (although I do fly with a HERE, just in case). I agree on using larger FBO's, but I've been to a lot of middle-tiered outfits over the decades and they can be just as good, all it takes is some research using AIRNAV. 1
Ragsf15e Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 5 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said: This is a very timely thread. I've been flying for 45 years, but the first time I'm planning a cross country trip with my wife. Mine starts in late April with the first stop being New Orleans, then on to visit some presidential libraries (LBJ, Bush's, Truman, Ike), Mount Rushmore and wherever the wind takes us. I'd like to get over to Santa Fe but am skittish about the mountain crossing, having been a flat-lander for all my flying career. Am I being too cautious or is it a valid concern for someone with no mountain experience? Our maximum aloft time is 3.5 hours for each leg with a two leg maximum, due to cramped quarters and aging bladders (although I do fly with a HERE, just in case). I agree on using larger FBO's, but I've been to a lot of middle-tiered outfits over the decades and they can be just as good, all it takes is some research using AIRNAV. Santa Fe is just fine! It has a long runway and good services. You can get in/out by going around the south end of the mountains that are just to the east. You could also go north and cross up by la veta pass. Just fly in the morning so it’s cool, try not to be at max weight (leave some expensive fuel at ksaf), and be careful with the winds. It can get really windy there. But they have multiple long runways, as long as you takeoff in the morning, it’s good. 1
Skates97 Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 2 hours ago, Pinecone said: And the most important tip, to me, go to places THEY want to go to. At least to start, let them pick the destinations. They will put up with more to go where they want to go. My wife probably has over 1,000 hours in the Mooney now and her tolerance for bumpy air has increased tremendously. But, the first few years flights fell into two categories. If we were going up to just fly around or get lunch somewhere it needed to be silky smooth. If we were on a 2-4 hour flight to see parents in AZ or grandkids in UT then light chop for the entire flight was tolerable. 4 1
Schllc Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 When I bought my first plane, my wife boldly announced she would not fly with me for two years. I said that’s fine by me, I’ll meet you wherever we are going 14 months later her father became ill, and rather quickly, we got the call that we needed to come immediately, she acquiesced and agreed to fly with me, a 3.5-4 hour flight depending on winds. Her father rallied and this happened another 7 or 8 times over the next several months. The second to last time I could not go because the plane was in annual, and I had work obligations. She gloated all night about how happy she was to be on an airline, and the fact that she didn’t have to be careful with her packing and how nice it was. The next morning she was up at 5am for the car service and was gone… The following day I was about to call her to see how things were going, when I got this text verbatim: “GET THE DAMN AIRPLANE FIXED! I HAD A FOUR HOUR DELAY IN ATLANTA, THEY LOST OUR LUGGAGE, AND THE RENTAL CAR COMPANY GAVE OUR CAR AWAY!” She has never really objected to flying since, and now is expressing some pretty strong opinions on which will be our “forever” plane. She still white knuckles it a bit, but is generally a good sport. Our little airplanes sure do make our worlds that much smaller. 6 2
Ragsf15e Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 My wife’s been flying with me since we met. One of our first dates was a $100 hamburger to Okracoke island (where we were delayed departing due to a Cirrus that slid off the side of the runway landing, spun around and broke in half). Kids been flying since they were a few months old. I try to avoid turbulence for us all but they don’t really mind it. Once on Southwest going into Denver (Wa to Fl is too far in the Mooney) we hit some really bad stuff coming over the front range. People were holding hands, crying, rubbing beads, puking, etc. it was no joke. I looked over at my wife who was reading a book and my kids were calmly watching a movie. Later my wife said she looked at me and saw that I wasn’t freaked out so it must’ve been ok?! I actually didn’t think it was great at the time, but there wasn’t much I could do about it, so don’t try to convey anything to upset others… 5
Hank Posted January 2 Report Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Schllc said: When I bought my first plane, my wife boldly announced she would not fly with me for two years. I said that’s fine by me, I’ll meet you wherever we are going 14 months later her father became ill, and rather quickly, we got the call that we needed to come immediately, she acquiesced and agreed to fly with me, a 3.5-4 hour flight depending on winds. Her father rallied and this happened another 7 or 8 times over the next several months. The second to last time I could not go because the plane was in annual, and I had work obligations. She gloated all night about how happy she was to be on an airline, and the fact that she didn’t have to be careful with her packing and how nice it was. The next morning she was up at 5am for the car service and was gone… The following day I was about to call her to see how things were going, when I got this text verbatim: “GET THE DAMN AIRPLANE FIXED! I HAD A FOUR HOUR DELAY IN ATLANTA, THEY LOST OUR LUGGAGE, AND THE RENTAL CAR COMPANY GAVE OUR CAR AWAY!” She has never really objected to flying since, and now is expressing some pretty strong opinions on which will be our “forever” plane. She still white knuckles it a bit, but is generally a good sport. Our little airplanes sure do make our worlds that much smaller. That tale made my wife laugh! Me, too. She's a good flyer, if we're going somewhere, but she rarely goes when I'm just flying around. She tolerates turbulence very well, especially going somewhere she wants to be. Packing and loading is always a challenge in a short body, though. The plane paid for itself when her dad's health failed, and we were able to visit "now" when we got the call, and were there when he passed. (Thank you, Instrument Rating!) 2-1/2 hours by Mooney, 9-10 by Nissan. She hates it when I post pictures of her sleeping in the plane, but I have them with both visible VFR outside, and milk bottle white. Her first IFR flight I had to ask for block clearance due to serious updrafts (power reduced, 10° nose down, 1500 fpm climb), with bright flashes out in the murk. She's a trouper, and I'm very lucky! I don't like legs more than 4 hours, but she's been with me up to 4:45 without complaining. And she is a great traffic spotter, and we compete to see the field first when breaking out on approach. (Yeah, I'm head down a lot, but she doesn't know the wind correction angle, so it's kind of even.) She's improved a lot over our 18 years of Mooney flying. Frequent exposure, lunch runs, going somewhere she wants to be. I sent her fly2lunch.com once so she could pick our Valentine's dinner, she asked how far I would go, and we were almost at my 200 mile limit at a great chop house at Arnold Palmer International. 2
McMooney Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 wow sim here, i figure i'm just my wifes plane uber, first Thanksgiving after getting the IR, it was her that suggested we fly to our destination rather than drive. she said quote, "I thought you took the test, get in the damn plane" 3 2
DC_Brasil Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 This topic is so relatable ahahahahaha My wife has never been enthusiastic to fly, even on airlines. When I bought the Mooney she was really reluctant. She's very sensitive to motion sickness. First tip I'd give is take it incrementally. Do not put new people to GA on a long XC unless strictly needed. I'd make short 1hr flights here and there to make sure they are fine with the many aspects of flying that may surprise the unwise like the persistent turbulence of lunch time, clouds, winds, etc. We've had a 6hr flight this year and it really wore her out. It was a very warm and bumpy day, so sick bags were ready to go. The FBO thing is for real! My wife now loves the Rockstar feeling of being treated the same as those guys stepping out of a Gulfstream. Good clean restrooms make a ton of difference for them and I also enjoy a good coffee before a flight. Flying in the morning: can't stress it enough. One other thing that can surprise first time flyers is ATC communication. My plane is based in a towered field inside a busy class C terminal area, the first time she flew with me, after the flight she confessed she was scared to death... she thought something was terribly wrong because of the very intense radio chatter all the time ahahahahah As for kids: I'd also take them on short and incrementally longer legs. Even if they're used to longer car trips, kids sometimes can't control bathroom stops. In a car you pull over anywhere and if it's serious enough, baby wipes will make do. Not so simple in a plane. One last thought: Starlink. Buy the darn thing. 3
ArtVandelay Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 This topic is so relatable ahahahahaha My wife has never been enthusiastic to fly, even on airlines. When I bought the Mooney she was really reluctant. She's very sensitive to motion sickness. First tip I'd give is take it incrementally. Do not put new people to GA on a long XC unless strictly needed. I'd make short 1hr flights here and there to make sure they are fine with the many aspects of flying that may surprise the unwise like the persistent turbulence of lunch time, clouds, winds, etc. We've had a 6hr flight this year and it really wore her out. It was a very warm and bumpy day, so sick bags were ready to go. The FBO thing is for real! My wife now loves the Rockstar feeling of being treated the same as those guys stepping out of a Gulfstream. Good clean restrooms make a ton of difference for them and I also enjoy a good coffee before a flight. Flying in the morning: can't stress it enough. One other thing that can surprise first time flyers is ATC communication. My plane is based in a towered field inside a busy class C terminal area, the first time she flew with me, after the flight she confessed she was scared to death... she thought something was terribly wrong because of the very intense radio chatter all the time ahahahahah As for kids: I'd also take them on short and incrementally longer legs. Even if they're used to longer car trips, kids sometimes can't control bathroom stops. In a car you pull over anywhere and if it's serious enough, baby wipes will make do. Not so simple in a plane. One last thought: Starlink. Buy the darn thing.6 hour flight!?I would recommend limiting flights to 3 hours. Heck I can barely stand to fly 6 hours on a airliners where I can stand up, go to bathroom and take a nap. 1
Schllc Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 While there is no elegant way for anyone to go to the bathroom in a Mooney, there is a solution that my girls found tolerable. It isn’t something regularly used, but absolutely worked well in an emergency. they can use it in the seat without too much trouble. The other link turns it to jelly. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09S9SW2VJ?ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/your-orders/pop?orderId=113-5947106-6703466&shipmentId=G435xx5vV&lineItemId=jgjprvkmnkswumps&packageId=1&asin=B0CH12VGSR&ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_pop_1 2
laytonl Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 My wife has been flying with me for 50 years with flights all over the county. She has ridden through extremely rough weather, lots of approaches to minimums, icing, and 25kt crosswind landings. She sees the airplane as our mode of traveling and just assumes we are flying unless weather dictates otherwise. And, she would hop in the airplane in an instant if we needed to go pickup a grandchild. However, she now insists on ‘no bump’ flights which is severely limiting the type of weather we fly in. And at age 70, that makes sense for me too. She is okay with clouds as long as it is smooth. No flights around any convective activity, which limits the flying times in the Southeast. My IfR minimums are now 500-2 for a “go decision”. We tend to fly 2.5 hour legs - no ports-Johns for her. Solo, I will do 3.5 hour legs. 4
1980Mooney Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 19 hours ago, flyboy0681 said: This is a very timely thread. I've been flying for 45 years, but the first time I'm planning a cross country trip with my wife. Mine starts in late April with the first stop being New Orleans, then on to visit some presidential libraries (LBJ, Bush's, Truman, Ike), Mount Rushmore and wherever the wind takes us. I'd like to get over to Santa Fe but am skittish about the mountain crossing, having been a flat-lander for all my flying career. Am I being too cautious or is it a valid concern for someone with no mountain experience? I have made the trip to Santa Fe many times coming from the Houston area. Coming from the Florida area into Santa Fe, you don’t have any “mountain crossing”. And if you are coming from the Mt. Rushmore area, you can just stay east of the Rockies flying a little south of Santa Fe and avoid any *mountain crossing”. Santa Fe is at the southern end of the Sangre de Cristo Mountain range of the Rockies. If you fly south of Pecos, NM, you go around the last southern peaks. The elevation of Santa Fe is 6,400 ft. so you need to be at least 7,400 ft in the pattern. Coming into Santa Fe from the SE, the MEF is only 8,400 ft. Realistically you will likely fly 9-10K ft. The elevation rises gradually across West Texas and East New Mexico. I recommend oxygen. You will feel sharper, more alert and less fatigued regardless of age. Also since you are a flat lander, I suggest that you not fly at night. New Mexico has some of the darkest most desolate land with absolutely no landmarks at night. Flying into Santa Fe at night, the dark rising peaks tend to blank out the horizon and it is easy to get disoriented. 2
EricJ Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 20 hours ago, flyboy0681 said: This is a very timely thread. I've been flying for 45 years, but the first time I'm planning a cross country trip with my wife. Mine starts in late April with the first stop being New Orleans, then on to visit some presidential libraries (LBJ, Bush's, Truman, Ike), Mount Rushmore and wherever the wind takes us. I'd like to get over to Santa Fe but am skittish about the mountain crossing, having been a flat-lander for all my flying career. Am I being too cautious or is it a valid concern for someone with no mountain experience? Our maximum aloft time is 3.5 hours for each leg with a two leg maximum, due to cramped quarters and aging bladders (although I do fly with a HERE, just in case). I agree on using larger FBO's, but I've been to a lot of middle-tiered outfits over the decades and they can be just as good, all it takes is some research using AIRNAV. +1 that getting from the locations you've listed to Santa Fe can be done without bothering too much with the mountains. From South Dakota (Mt Rushmore) to northern New Mexico is pretty much prairie staying east of the rockies, or at least to Trinidad, CO (TAD). In the summer there are afternoon showers/cells coming from the mountains, so you have to plan around those. Once in northern NM you can still stay over pretty much flat land from Trinidad to Las Vegas (LVS), and then it's a short trip around the southern edge of some peaks to Santa Fe. It can be bumpy depending on what the wind is doing, but probably not too challenging. From there it's easy to head further west if you want to see the Grand Canyon or southern Utah, which are really cool to see from the air. 2
1980Mooney Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 On 1/1/2026 at 4:03 PM, jamesyql said: I have a 3 year old son and wife. With great anticipation, I am starting to plan longer XC flights for this summer. Debating on balance of leg length vs overall number of stops needed. Goal trip will be ~1600 nm in our J model equipped with a GFC500 autopilot. My IFR flight test is this month. I have some ideas how I will approach this. 5 x ~2 hr legs over ~2 days with another 1-2 days of buffer for weather contingencies. Extra leg on the way home for winds. Options for backup commercial flights at intermediate stops in case of worse weather delays. That is a long trip for a first “longer XC”. You have not mentioned how long you will be at your destination. Your plan is 2 days in transit each way with “1-2 days of buffer for weather”. And an extra leg for headwinds on the westbound trip home. You may well spend 6 days flying. And that is assuming that you don’t have any minor mechanical issues that might need attention or a quick fix. Hopefully this is more than a 1 week trip. I started flying a J with family about 30 years ago. 650 - 700 nm in 2 legs was about the limit of ‘fun” for the family. Those intermediate stops at a FBO will cost you a minimum of 45 minutes and more likely an hour - maybe more. Pattern, taxi, fuel, brief, taxi, release, climb added on top of how long your pax want to sit in comfy chairs at the FBO. Later I upgraded the same plane to 300hp to gain 25 knots. With long range tanks, it turned the 2 leg-660 nm flight of about 6+hours with FBO stop into a 4 hour non stop flight. As others have mentioned, first impressions are lasting. Your plan for a minimum 5 westbound legs home, and probably 6 legs with headwinds could be drudgery for someone that doesn’t share the same passion for flying as you. 1
midlifeflyer Posted January 3 Report Posted January 3 1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said: I have made the trip to Santa Fe many times coming from the Houston area. Coming from the Florida area into Santa Fe, you don’t have any “mountain crossing”. And if you are coming from the Mt. Rushmore area, you can just stay east of the Rockies flying a little south of Santa Fe and avoid any *mountain crossing”. I lived in Denver for 20 years and flew into SAF and the ABQ/AEG area often enough that it became a "local" flight for me. I agree with your assessment - you can avoid a true "mountain crossing" by coming up from the south over Albuquerque. From the north, just fly south of SAF remaining east of the mountains until past the highest terrain. Basically V62 running from ACH to SAF VOR (where I got one of my few real-world holds) will get you in fairly comfortably VFR or IFR. But, let's not forget that the terrain is substantially higher than a Florida flatlander may have encountered in the past, so D-Alt remains a consideration and that, although significantly lower, can create its own weather. So I wouldn't treat it as a nothing burger. 2
jamesyql Posted January 3 Author Report Posted January 3 That is a long trip for a first “longer XC”. Thank you for the response and I am sharing all of these with my wife so she is looped in on everyone’s perspectives. I am glad I asked the group because your opinions and very valuable. She and I have done several longer 3.5-4 hour legs together so she is comfortable with longer XC, but this will definitely be stretching our Mooney’s legs longer than before. We have been stuck for multiple days, booked commercial last minute, etc, so we are comfortable with the idiosyncrasies of GA flying. Your point of time spent travelling vs time at destination is a good one. We are planning a total of 2 weeks and she knows the journey is important to me and is willing to sacrifice a bit of time at destination to support the GA flying dreams I have. Our intermediate stops will also have commercial service to our destination in the event of a last minute delay as a backup.Addendum: ordered a Starlink 2
flyboy0681 Posted January 4 Report Posted January 4 On 1/3/2026 at 12:32 PM, midlifeflyer said: I lived in Denver for 20 years and flew into SAF and the ABQ/AEG area often enough that it became a "local" flight for me. I agree with your assessment - you can avoid a true "mountain crossing" by coming up from the south over Albuquerque. From the north, just fly south of SAF remaining east of the mountains until past the highest terrain. Basically V62 running from ACH to SAF VOR (where I got one of my few real-world holds) will get you in fairly comfortably VFR or IFR. But, let's not forget that the terrain is substantially higher than a Florida flatlander may have encountered in the past, so D-Alt remains a consideration and that, although significantly lower, can create its own weather. So I wouldn't treat it as a nothing burger. OK, you guys convinced me that it shouldn't pose a problem. Since I would be coming from Texas, I'll already be south. That said, if I filed IFR is there the potential that I would be routed differently than filed, or should I just get Flight Following and do it my way? Night flying will not be an issue since I don't fly at night. In fact, the last logbook entry for a night flight was in 1983.
Ragsf15e Posted January 4 Report Posted January 4 22 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said: OK, you guys convinced me that it shouldn't pose a problem. Since I would be coming from Texas, I'll already be south. That said, if I filed IFR is there the potential that I would be routed differently than filed, or should I just get Flight Following and do it my way? Night flying will not be an issue since I don't fly at night. In fact, the last logbook entry for a night flight was in 1983. Depending on time of year, it should be totally vfr. If it’s not, 90% of the time you don’t want to be imc in whatever is there anyway. Flight following should be fine. If you don’t like a route change or shortcut when you’re ifr, feel free to tell them youd prefer your original route and they will normally comply. watch out for los alamos r area nw of santa fe.
Ibra Posted January 4 Report Posted January 4 (edited) On 1/2/2026 at 7:07 PM, Pinecone said: Consider StarLink. Giving your passengers internet access goes a long way to keeping them happy. Indeed, I have limited use of Starlink but bizarre it changed my family tolerance for longer flying trips, they get some entrainment. It anlso helps with risky trips: diverting with Starlink is non-event as passengers can “book hotels & taxis” well before touchdown. Also in Europe, Starlink is cheap option for en-route weather and traffic, no ADSB FIS and no ADSB TIS yet I managed to hook my family into camping, Starlink when camping is a nice addition. I can also suggest an additional two miracles from camping: * Outin espresso portable machine https://outin.com * Stanley hot water thermos https://eu.stanley1913.com Flying is no longer the same when you can serve tea, coffee, hot chocolate and biscuits with high speed internet, just sayin Edited January 4 by Ibra
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