Mooney M20 E Model

[Gary D]

Hi everyone,

I'm a retired Corporate Pilot ( 2020) getting ready to purchase my first personally owned airplane, a 1970 M20 E model. My question is ; Has any body on here used Horton Aviation at North Las Vegas airport for a Pre-Buy or Maintenance on their aircraft? I'm in the Tulsa area but the aircraft is in VGT North LAs Vegas so I'm "Air lining" out there next week to check out the aircraft and fly it. I will also monitor the Pre-buy. The price they told me for a pre-buy of $3,500 seemed a little high to me. I've checked with some local shops here in Tulsa and they said it's a little high but it is west coast prices. Just don't know so figured I'd ask the experts here.

Thank you 

Gary D. 

[AndreiC]

I don't know anything about Horton so can't answer that. Price-wise, I think it depends how deep they will go into the inspection. Around here (upper Midwest) $3500 is the price of an annual if they don't find serious things that need addressing. (I.e., never; but the things that need addressing are extra.) In my mind an annual is more extensive than a prepurchase inspection, but I may be wrong (for example on an annual with a mechanic that already knows the plane they don't need to review the logbooks from the beginning onwards; while on a ppi they may not need to swing the gear). How to factor in West Coast prices is also an unknown.

So in conclusion my gut feeling is that the price is high, but not obscenely high.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, Gary D said:

I've checked with some local shops here in Tulsa and they said it's a little high but it is west coast prices. Just don't know so figured I'd ask the experts here.

If the pre-buy finds a deal-breaker, that will be money well spent.

[Gary D]

Agree, Very True Fly Boomer

[Echo]

Hi Gary,  Good luck with this E I hope it works out.  I offer a different perspective on the prebuy.  I absolutely would go and inspect/fly the plane, but I would never pay $3500 for a prebuy.  What are the dealbreakers?  Obviously corrosion in the lower cabin tubes and spar.  You can without to much difficulty pull the side panels and inspect the tube structure.  A close inspection of the gear wells will show corrosion and or leaking of fuel tanks.  Lifting carpets will show leaks in the fuel senders.  Removing the rear avionics/battery access panel will show any corrosion in the tail.  Removing a couple wing access panels will show corrosion/condition in the wings.  If the tanks have not been sealed they likely will have seeps.  This is about $3500/wing to strip and reseal at the two prime facilities that do this service (Florida and Minnesota).  Compression checks and inspection of the accordian in nose forair filter (hard to comeby part)  Dukes gear service/inspection?  These gears (in Dukes) are also tough to come by and condition is important to verify.  Other than that nice long flight to confirm it is in rig and avionics are all functioning properly.  If you are paying $3500 they better be physically pulling the back seat and inspecting the spar.  If plane was hangered (No leaks showing on headliner) and in non coastal climates spar corrosion is possible, but NOT likely.  What am I missing E owners?  Of course inspecting nose gear truss for ANY dents.  If dented the truss SHOULD be replaced.  Any excessive shimy on taxi or veering on takeoff and landing means slop in nosegear.  You WILL know when you fly if not right.  These inspections are NOT complex.  I would not pay that price, but that is just me...Others swear by prebuys...

[JoeM]

I used Horton years ago when it was an avionics shop and they were just getting into annuals and other airframe maintenance. James is honest. I believe his son is involved now. I don't know how much Mooney experience they have. As a 5 year owner of an E (my 4th Mooney), I would not pay $3500 for a prebuy. It should cost $1000 or less. I would ask the seller to fly the plane to Socal or Phoenix to a mechanic that knows Mooneys for inspection. If you bring it to Socal, Steve Parkins at Corona owns and understands Mooneys (Including mine). If that is not possible, I would pay a local mechanic to do a borescope of the cylinders and try to get a look at the cam lifters (hard but possible), inspect the spar, empennage, wheel wells and pilot side tubes for corrosion, look inside the wings and interior panels for corrosion or fuel leaks, and test all the avionics in the air. Do a speed test to learn if it is rigged correctly. This group has given you a good list of gotchas. With a 55 year old airplane you will have stuff to fix - the key is to catch the items that can cost you huge sums or make your new purchase a problem airplane in the first year of ownership.  

[Bolter]

1 hour ago, Echo said:

Hi Gary,  Good luck with this E I hope it works out.  I offer a different perspective on the prebuy.  I absolutely would go and inspect/fly the plane, but I would never pay $3500 for a prebuy.  What are the dealbreakers?  Obviously corrosion in the lower cabin tubes and spar.  You can without to much difficulty pull the side panels and inspect the tube structure.  A close inspection of the gear wells will show corrosion and or leaking of fuel tanks.  Lifting carpets will show leaks in the fuel senders.  Removing the rear avionics/battery access panel will show any corrosion in the tail.  Removing a couple wing access panels will show corrosion/condition in the wings.  If the tanks have not been sealed they likely will have seeps.  This is about $3500/wing to strip and reseal at the two prime facilities that do this service (Florida and Minnesota).  Compression checks and inspection of the accordian in nose forair filter (hard to comeby part)  Dukes gear service/inspection?  These gears (in Dukes) are also tough to come by and condition is important to verify.  Other than that nice long flight to confirm it is in rig and avionics are all functioning properly.  If you are paying $3500 they better be physically pulling the back seat and inspecting the spar.  If plane was hangered (No leaks showing on headliner) and in non coastal climates spar corrosion is possible, but NOT likely.  What am I missing E owners?  Of course inspecting nose gear truss for ANY dents.  If dented the truss SHOULD be replaced.  Any excessive shimy on taxi or veering on takeoff and landing means slop in nosegear.  You WILL know when you fly if not right.  These inspections are NOT complex.  I would not pay that price, but that is just me...Others swear by prebuys...

Not to belittle @Gary D, but if he is asking about what to look for this close to an impending purchase, he is not ready to self-inspect a Mooney.  While it is all screwdrivers and wrenches to get to these places, knowing in advance where to go is a skill set, even if you have a list of things to look at in front of you.  For example, is it old 4-disk generation landing ger pucks on there since new, or the later 3-puck generation?  Most of us know the difference, but a new to Mooney person would not.  That was intended as an easy example.  Other things are more challenging.  

Finding a good pre-buy check list to provide the pre-buy shop is the best thing you can do at this stage.  And observe and learn from it to be ready for the next one, or be ready for your first annual.  Several lists are on this site.  

It was not clear to me in the OP if the pre-buy shop is the seller.  This is always a concern, and should be avoided.  

-dan

[MikeOH]

While it seems a bit high, my bigger concern is how much experience do they have inspecting Mooneys; do they really know the proper things to look for?

And, my standard advice is to buy a plane that the owner has been recently and continuously flying.  If the owner has been flying around, especially with his family onboard, that would be excellent evidence of a solid aircraft.

[DCarlton]

13 hours ago, JoeM said:

I used Horton years ago when it was an avionics shop and they were just getting into annuals and other airframe maintenance. James is honest. I believe his son is involved now. I don't know how much Mooney experience they have. As a 5 year owner of an E (my 4th Mooney), I would not pay $3500 for a prebuy. It should cost $1000 or less. I would ask the seller to fly the plane to Socal or Phoenix to a mechanic that knows Mooneys for inspection. If you bring it to Socal, Steve Parkins at Corona owns and understands Mooneys (Including mine). If that is not possible, I would pay a local mechanic to do a borescope of the cylinders and try to get a look at the cam lifters (hard but possible), inspect the spar, empennage, wheel wells and pilot side tubes for corrosion, look inside the wings and interior panels for corrosion or fuel leaks, and test all the avionics in the air. Do a speed test to learn if it is rigged correctly. This group has given you a good list of gotchas. With a 55 year old airplane you will have stuff to fix - the key is to catch the items that can cost you huge sums or make your new purchase a problem airplane in the first year of ownership.  

$1000 is only 8 hours work at SOCAL prices.  It makes more sense to me to sell a plane during an annual while the plane is already opened up.  Or turn a pre-buy into an $3500 annual.  Get something more for your money that at least lasts a year.  

[Gary D]

 Thank you AndreiC

[Gary D]

Thank you everyone, great advise. I did ask Horton about their Mooney experience and the owner of the shop Owns a Mooney and has rebuilt it. I like the advise of doing my own Pre-Buy of pulling panels and where to look advise. If the aircraft was at my home base here in Oklahoma I would do that in a heart beat due to the fact I'm just an old gear head at heart and have worked on a number of aircraft with an A&P / IA, mostly on jet aircraft, But love to work on them under the supervision of a A&P. The feasibility of doing my own inspection in Vegas is not practical, no tools, and I don't like to borrow tools, I know I wouldn't loan mine out to just anyone. 

Always willing to learn and take advise, I'm certainly a newbie when it comes to Mooney's, my career has come full circle, back to small  single engine airplanes, but these are a lot faster than the Cherokees I started out in some fifty years ago.

I'll let you know what the shop finds on the pre-buy , It's taken me almost a year to find the right Mooney. Proceeding forward with caution, well.....unless someone has the winning lottery ticket number that's willing to share. LOL ! then it's full brand new panel LOL!!! 

Hey Dan, Always enjoyed going to Ivar's restaurant when we went to KPAE back in 2000's, loved the seafood there.  

Thank you everyone

 

 

[Bartman]

I agree it is not always practical to do an inspection away from home and in this instance I may do the same thing. 

I had a pre buy done at a well known Mooney shop in 2007 and they did find and fix a couple of things at the seller’s expense. No corrosion or big ticket items except for leaking tank which I knew I’d have to fix. However, over the next couple of years we found several other items that needed to be addressed. There will be things this shop does not find, but hopefully you can avoid the gotcha items as I did. 

[Echo]

On 10/28/2025 at 7:53 PM, Echo said:

Thank you everyone, great advise. I did ask Horton about their Mooney experience and the owner of the shop Owns a Mooney and has rebuilt it. I like the advise of doing my own Pre-Buy of pulling panels and where to look advise. If the aircraft was at my home base here in Oklahoma I would do that in a heart beat due to the fact I'm just an old gear head at heart and have worked on a number of aircraft with an A&P / IA, mostly on jet aircraft, But love to work on them under the supervision of a A&P. The feasibility of doing my own inspection in Vegas is not practical, no tools, and I don't like to borrow tools, I know I wouldn't loan mine out to just anyone. 

Always willing to learn and take advise, I'm certainly a newbie when it comes to Mooney's, my career has come full circle, back to small  single engine airplanes, but these are a lot faster than the Cherokees I started out in some fifty years ago.

I'll let you know what the shop finds on the pre-buy , It's taken me almost a year to find the right Mooney. Proceeding forward with caution, well.....unless someone has the winning lottery ticket number that's willing to share. LOL ! then it's full brand new panel LOL!!! 

Hey Dan, Always enjoyed going to Ivar's restaurant when we went to KPAE back in 2000's, loved the seafood there.  

Thank you everyone

Fair enough.  So they are going to inspect your plane for two full eight hour days at $200/hour?  Damn.

Edited October 30 by Echo
Pulled wrong quote

[Gary D]

Well, I've decided to go ahead with the deal, to purchase the 1970 E model. Horton Aviation completed the prebuy and was absolutely awesome. Both James and his son James are highly experienced with the Mooney's. Including mine in for prebuy, there were seven Mooney's of different models there for different services, some for annuals and some for panel upgrades. James SR found several items with my Mooney that I am purchasing, that needed to be addressed and corrected before I would accept the aircraft, and the seller agreed to have those repaired from his mechanic and verified. Horton aviation did a very extensive prebuy, Engine, Airframe ( Every panel removed) , gear swings, Let me practice the emergency gear procedure (wow, that's a lot of cranks, 50 or so I think it was)  as I stayed in the hangar to watch and learn, since I'm a rookie when it comes to the Mooney's. The aircraft should be delivered after all the items are repaired and replaced, about five items total. A couple was the stall warning horn which was intermittent and the fuel gages were inoperative. It's a good solid airplane with a great engine. Horton did the usual compression check, as well as a bore scope, and oil analysis to be sent off. My personal experience with Horton Aviation was a very positive one. I would absolutely use them again if I was based closer, but I'm in Oklahoma so that's a long way to go for service for me. 

I'm excited about my New 1970 E model, the first airplane I've ever owned in my 50 years of flying. It's really going to be fun now, I won't have dispatch telling me where I'm going, when I'm going and how long I'm staying, the nice thing about being retired now I guess. HAHAHA. Well.... unless the wife tells me we're going somewhere, she's already planning day trips.

I should be closing after the aircraft is delivered and I do a test flight with in the next week or so.

Thank you everyone for the advise you gave, very helpful. 

Gary D.   

[TheAv8r]

21 minutes ago, Gary D said:

Well, I've decided to go ahead with the deal, to purchase the 1970 E model. Horton Aviation completed the prebuy and was absolutely awesome. Both James and his son James are highly experienced with the Mooney's. Including mine in for prebuy, there were seven Mooney's of different models there for different services, some for annuals and some for panel upgrades. James SR found several items with my Mooney that I am purchasing, that needed to be addressed and corrected before I would accept the aircraft, and the seller agreed to have those repaired from his mechanic and verified. Horton aviation did a very extensive prebuy, Engine, Airframe ( Every panel removed) , gear swings, Let me practice the emergency gear procedure (wow, that's a lot of cranks, 50 or so I think it was)  as I stayed in the hangar to watch and learn, since I'm a rookie when it comes to the Mooney's. The aircraft should be delivered after all the items are repaired and replaced, about five items total. A couple was the stall warning horn which was intermittent and the fuel gages were inoperative. It's a good solid airplane with a great engine. Horton did the usual compression check, as well as a bore scope, and oil analysis to be sent off. My personal experience with Horton Aviation was a very positive one. I would absolutely use them again if I was based closer, but I'm in Oklahoma so that's a long way to go for service for me. 

I'm excited about my New 1970 E model, the first airplane I've ever owned in my 50 years of flying. It's really going to be fun now, I won't have dispatch telling me where I'm going, when I'm going and how long I'm staying, the nice thing about being retired now I guess. HAHAHA. Well.... unless the wife tells me we're going somewhere, she's already planning day trips.

I should be closing after the aircraft is delivered and I do a test flight with in the next week or so.

Thank you everyone for the advise you gave, very helpful. 

Gary D.   

Awesome success story, thanks for sharing Gary. Best of luck with the new plane, I own a '65 M20E and they are awesome, awesome airplanes. I just flew mine from Arizona back to Texas this weekend. I'm out in Houston if you need any assistance getting transitioned into it.

[Paul Thomas]

Congratulations and have fun.

[Hank]

@Gary D, I have a 1970 C, same as your E but with a carburetor. The gear handle crank is 50 or 52 turns; besides training, I've done it once in anger, just recently (after almost 18 years of ownership), I took a break after 40 turns. You need to keep count as you do it

Enjoy flying your new Mooney! We really like ours.

[Gary D]

Thank you everyone, I'm sure I'll be asking a lot of questions in the near future. 

Looking forward to it for sure

[TaildraggerPilot]

Pics, and lots of them, or this never happened. ;-)

[hammdo]

Congratulations! They are great planes. Things always come up the first year so don't be surprised ;o) Enjoy! It will be exciting to go fly when you want to!

-Don

[LBM]

Congratulations!  Hope you enjoy it as much as I’ve enjoyed my ‘64 E.  Reading your comment about emergency gear extension reminded me how much I appreciate the unique Johnson bar landing gear design.

One thing I would recommend is skeptical review of ancient history in logs.  Even with a good prebuy there are some things that might get missed.  My plane had an in flight engine failure earlier this year, #3 exhaust valve lost its head.  Looking back afterward I found the entry that had been interpreted as the last overhaul was more likely IRAN, with the airframe log showing coincident nose gear and belly skin repairs.  That changed the engine timeline significantly.  As a result I believe that Service Bulletin 388 and Service Instruction 1485 were still applicable, not superseded.  Knowing all that might’ve saved me from a few anxious moments before our successful forced landing on a closed airfield.  As Mike Patey found out with his engine failure in Turbulence, an overlooked item from decades ago can come back and bite you.

good luck, and enjoy!

[DavePage]

Gary D

Welcome to Mooney ownership.  Please keep us posted on your adventure during your trip back to OK.  Also with  your first day trip with your wife.  I've owned 3 Mooneys, over the past 24 yrear, a 68' C, a 231 / 262 and currently a 94' Bravo.  Loved them all, especially my first, the C.  Wishing you all the luck and CAVU.

Dave