M20J nose wheel collapse at KHEF

[Mooney in Oz]

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/546065

Since when did a Mooney become a twin jet Challenger?  -

Citing Virginia State Police, Potomac Local reported that the Bombardier CL-600 twin-engine plane slid about 200 to 300 feet on the runway. The pilot, a 47-year-old from Washington, D.C., was the only person on board.

On a more serious note, it is reported as a gear malfunction with no injuries.

[EricJ]

That's a pretty unusual failure on a Mooney.   I'm curious about what led to that.

[PT20J]

43 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That's a pretty unusual failure on a Mooney.   I'm curious about what led to that.

Maybe a damaged noise gear leg from tow damage? If that's the case, it should have been caught on preflight.

[Hank]

39 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Maybe a damaged noise gear leg from tow damage? If that's the case, it should have been caught on preflight.

More likely to be PIO.

[EricJ]

58 minutes ago, Hank said:

More likely to be PIO.

That's probably it.    I bought my airplane with a new prop, new nosegear, and freshly IRAN'ed engine because it had been PIO'd into a nosegear collapse 40 hours earlier by the previous owner.

[Yetti]

the forgotten art of flaring

[1980Mooney]

The ASN in the post by @Mooney in Oz (from the ASIAS) says:

”nose landing gear collapse following a bounced landing at Manassas Regional Airport/Harry P. Davis Field (HEF)”

[Yetti]

One of the things that really helps to prevent PIO is more trim. Assuming you have been trimming all the way around the pattern.   I usually grab 2 handfuls of the trim wheel right before the threshold.   The nose will get very light and require some down input.     This is good because if you bounce it it will keep the nose up, more back pressure and either fly it for another landing or power and get out of there. 

[Hank]

5 hours ago, Yetti said:

One of the things that really helps to prevent PIO is more trim. Assuming you have been trimming all the way around the pattern.   I usually grab 2 handfuls of the trim wheel right before the threshold.   The nose will get very light and require some down input.     This is good because if you bounce it it will keep the nose up, more back pressure and either fly it for another landing or power and get out of there. 

I had a PIO coming home at night on Thanksgiving weekend, in my first year of ownership (maybe 125 hours total time). After Bounce #2, full throttle and pray to clear the trees, followed by my mantra of "make a normal landing, figure it out later" over and over. Second attempt went like it was supposed to. 

I figured out over the next couple of days that I was so glad to be home after 3 hours' flight and a nice sunset, being vectored over the field because of the football game TFR, etc., that i just relaxed and quit flying in the flare. Stuff happens . . . even stoopid stuff.

[Yetti]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

I had a PIO coming home at night on Thanksgiving weekend, in my first year of ownership (maybe 125 hours total time). After Bounce #2, full throttle and pray to clear the trees, followed by my mantra if "make a normal landing, figure it out later" over and over. Second attempt went like it was supposed to. 

I figured out over the next couple of days that I was so glad to be home after 3 hours' flight and a nice sunset, being vectored over the field because of the football game TFR, etc., that i just relaxed and quit flying in the flare. Stuff happens . . . even stoopid stuff.

I like to say.   flying is easy.     Landing is hard. Landing is where you sometimes have to pull every pilot trick out of the bag of tricks.    Other times it just clicks, but no one is around to see that one. 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

I like to say.   flying is easy.     Landing is hard. Landing is where you sometimes have to pull every pilot trick out of the bag of tricks.    Other times it just clicks, but no one is around to see that one. 

My only really memorable bounced landing came with ~700 hours in my F.  It was after a 4 hour xc, but otherwise nothing special about the conditions.  Stuff happens even with good experience and standard conditions.

[cliffy]

CL-600?  Wow,  we are fast  aren't we?

[Hank]

2 hours ago, cliffy said:

CL-600?  Wow,  we are fast  aren't we?

I don't see the second engine in the photo . . . .

[EricJ]

I don't remember where I learned it, but if there's sufficient runway left a PIO cycle can be broken by application of just enough power during a bounce to arrest the pitch change into a stable attitude (e.g., to make the elevator work again).   I used it once not long after I got my airplane just from screwing up a landing, and then again when the MP hose broke and idle RPM stayed much higher than usual during a landing (coupled with not paying sufficient attention).   Works really well, and can be easily turned into a go-around if so desired.

[Hank]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

I don't remember where I learned it, but if there's sufficient runway left a PIO cycle can be broken by application of just enough power during a bounce to arrest the pitch change into a stable attitude (e.g., to make the elevator work again).

I've done this when I balloon in the flare [first time was the second of three landings on my first solo], but I've never heard it advocated after a hard bounce. The problem with PIO is that the pilot's throttle and elevator application are out of sequence with the nosewheel-first hits, which just make each bounce larger and each nosewheel impact steeper and faster. That's why I went full throttle and tried a second attempt from downwind. PIO is more than a float, a balloon or a bounce, it breaks landing gear.

[cliffy]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

I don't see the second engine in the photo . . . .

You can't see the two big fan jets there either?   :-)

[AdamJD]

I've done it.  First year after owning the Mooney.  Home airport was a bees nest as usual and the downwind was stretched to two miles.  So I kept speed up on final and didn't bleed it in time.  I was too fast and when the wheels touched, I popped back up off the runway and then the plane came back down slightly nose wheel first, which made the second bounce more pronounced.  That's when I went around knowing the next bounce would have buried the nose.  I was lucky and learned a lesson.  Airspeed airspeed airspeed.  And if you bounce a Mooney, it's not a 172.  Go around.  Not worth trying to save it.

[Mooney in Oz]

19 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

The ASN in the post by @Mooney in Oz (from the ASIAS) says:

”nose landing gear collapse following a bounced landing at Manassas Regional Airport/Harry P. Davis Field (HEF)”

Yes, you are correct, however one of the media links included info I in part mentioned was according to the fire department a landing gear malfunction. The FD may have derived that info from the pilot himself.

According to the fire department, the plane landed on its nose after a landing gear malfunction.                                           

Given nose wheel failures are rare, I agree a PIO is most likely what happened.

[Shadrach]

It is possible for two things to be true at the same time. If there was an issue with the nose gear, a PIO would reveal it. I’m curious as to what happens to the over center link in this kind of a failure.

[MooneyMitch]

No matter how great your flight went, seems your passengers judge the flight on how smooth your landing was!!  

[jetdriven]

The owner is gonna have an issue seeing as how there is no piston maintenance shop at HEF.  There is a school that only works on their own planes 

[Mooney in Oz]

8 hours ago, Shadrach said:

It is possible for two things to be true at the same time. If there was an issue with the nose gear, a PIO would reveal it. I’m curious as to what happens to the over center link in this kind of a failure.

I know of a similar incident that had the same result, but it was not caused by a PIO. A pilot landed on a grass strip in his J and during the roll out, the nose wheel ran over a small divot that caused the nose wheel to collapse. The cause was found to be an out of rig nose wheel.

[Shadrach]

7 hours ago, jetdriven said:

The owner is gonna have an issue seeing as how there is no piston maintenance shop at HEF.  There is a school that only works on their own planes 

Did MAM (Manassas Aviation Maintenance) close?  There are  quite a few recips on the field.  I know that Chantilly Air won’t work on GA aircraft. 

[jetdriven]

You can call them, but they only want to work on their own flight school planes, if you offer to lease it back to them then they may take a look at it.  It seems to be the newest thing, thr airport sponsor is required to offer maintenance as a Grant assurance, but they get some flight school in there that takes over the maintenance shop and then, although they give the appearance of holding out to the public, they will not work on other planes besides theirs

[Brandt]

On 9/24/2025 at 12:37 PM, jetdriven said:

The owner is gonna have an issue seeing as how there is no piston maintenance shop at HEF.  There is a school that only works on their own planes 

Sounds like a business opportunity for FlyRPM.  Just saying…