Ryan ORL Posted Tuesday at 03:41 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 03:41 PM 19 minutes ago, MikeOH said: Interesting how that might work...do the 'workers' actually making the parts have to be Mooney employees, or can they be Laser employees physically in the Mooney factory using Mooney factory equipment/processes, and still be able to use the Mooney production certificate? I got the impression it was the latter.
N201MKTurbo Posted Tuesday at 03:43 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 03:43 PM I don’t think the FAA cares who is paying the employees.
201Mooniac Posted Tuesday at 03:50 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 03:50 PM I thought in the end it was really just the Mooney quality process that mattered to the FAA, they can contract out the actual parts production as I understand it. 1
N201MKTurbo Posted Tuesday at 04:25 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 04:25 PM 35 minutes ago, 201Mooniac said: I thought in the end it was really just the Mooney quality process that mattered to the FAA, they can contract out the actual parts production as I understand it. That sounds right.
Paul Thomas Posted Tuesday at 05:12 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 05:12 PM 1 hour ago, Ryan ORL said: The Mooney certificate. There was some discussion of how to specifically structure the deal so as not to invalidate the certificate. I didn't understand (and so don't remember) the specifics of how that works, but they were pretty clear that being able to do stuff under that certificate was the whole goal. That makes sense; getting new certificates would be a pain. With this arrangement, it's unlikely VC is going to be able to step in as Mooney could replace LASAR with someone else at the end of the contract.
Schllc Posted Tuesday at 08:17 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 08:17 PM When I got out of college I was employed by a specialty tool manufacturer. They built a couple thousand very unique tools for the oil field. The shop was really sophisticated with about 100 machining stations 25 being very modern cnc machines, 300 highly skilled machinists working three shifts 24/7. I managed the schedule and traceability and they were making obscene amounts of money. The business was started by three guys in their garage, had no debt, and was known all over the world for its service, and as “the guys that had the stuff on the shelf”. They were purchased by a company who was heavily leveraging the debt right before I was hired. What the founders had figured out , was that some of the complex parts to make took more time to setup the machine than it did to make the part. Some taking 16 hours of writing the code and setting up the machine to run for 5 minutes to make the part. So when they had an order for one or two, they would make 50 or a hundred and put the extras on the shelf. (The cost of the single order paid enough to make all the rest). Pure genius in my mind and the three founders were very wealthy…. Six months later the bean counters came in. Wrote off about 20 million in “dead inventory” claiming that since most of the inventory hadn’t sold within 13 months of production. and the company went out of business shortly after. The write off was not the only factor, or even thr main, but it sure didn’t help things. Also, some companies have to pay tax on the inventory if there is value added, as in machining. This would absolutely be the smartest thing for inventory that Mooney could do, but not sure they will be permitted even if they chose to. I saw their plant several times, and the amount of material and time that goes into making one at a time really ruins any economy. Given how rigorous the traceability is, they have to know what amounts of things are made yearly, and with a modest front end investment in building inventory would really make this work for the vendor and consumer. Let’s hope they can make it work.
TangoTango Posted Tuesday at 08:47 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 08:47 PM 20 minutes ago, Schllc said: Six months later the bean counters came in. Wrote off about 20 million in “dead inventory” claiming that since most of the inventory hadn’t sold within 13 months of production. and the company went out of business shortly after. The write off was not the only factor, or even thr main, but it sure didn’t help things. Also, some companies have to pay tax on the inventory if there is value added, as in machining. This would absolutely be the smartest thing for inventory that Mooney could do, but not sure they will be permitted even if they chose to. I saw their plant several times, and the amount of material and time that goes into making one at a time really ruins any economy. Given how rigorous the traceability is, they have to know what amounts of things are made yearly, and with a modest front end investment in building inventory would really make this work for the vendor and consumer. Let’s hope they can make it work. Texas is a bit unique in that they tax inventory as personal property, which makes Mooney carrying inventory as you describe particularly punitive. I don't know what the rate is in Kerrville, but since airplane parts are relatively high value and Mooney is relatively cash strapped, I'm sure they don't want to carry any more inventory at that location than they have to. I wonder if Lasar can order Mooney parts in enough volume to produce some economies of scale, then carry the inventory on their books back in Oregon (where inventory is not taxed)?
hazek Posted Tuesday at 08:57 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 08:57 PM 6 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: Laser https://lasar.com/ las-A-r, two As
Mark89114 Posted Tuesday at 09:02 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 09:02 PM Found this listing on line. Don't know timeline if before/after the LASAR announcement. I think it is going to be a tough business. mooney.pdf 2
1980Mooney Posted Tuesday at 09:24 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 09:24 PM (edited) 3 hours ago, Mark89114 said: Found this listing on line. Don't know timeline if before/after the LASAR announcement. I think it is going to be a tough business. mooney.pdf 1.2 MB · 1 download Agree. The facility has been marketed on APN for 2 months. That PowerPoint came from it. (click on "View Brochure") The City of Kerrville and Kerr County own the entire facility. The title of the post is "Shop for Lease" and the documents make that clear (20 year remaining). Since the City/County have been marketing it for 2 months, it sounds like either Mooney has not been paying the Lease and the City/County gave notice of eviction or Mooney let them know that they are giving up. Office / Shop For Lease at KERRVILLE MUNI/LOUIS SCHREINER FLD | Listing 2512 Edited yesterday at 12:41 AM by 1980Mooney
MikeOH Posted Tuesday at 09:34 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 09:34 PM 29 minutes ago, Mark89114 said: Found this listing on line. Don't know timeline if before/after the LASAR announcement. I think it is going to be a tough business. mooney.pdf 1.2 MB · 6 downloads Sadly, that 'brochure' looks a whole lot like what industrial auction houses publish before an asset sale. While Mooney has risen from ashes countless times, if the equipment gets auctioned off, it may well be the end. I fervently hope that is not the case.
1980Mooney Posted Tuesday at 09:37 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 09:37 PM (edited) Kerrville had the Annual Joint Airport Board meeting on August 20, 2025. One week later on August 27 they had an Airport Board "Special Called" meeting. Events • Agendas and Minutes - Kerrville, Texas • CivicClerk Tomorrow morning at 8:30 AM there is another Joint Airport Board meeting which is open to the Public. Can someone in the Kerrville area attend and find out what is going on? Kerrville-Kerr County Joint Airport Board Meeting • Agendas and Minutes - Kerrville, Texas • CivicClerk Edited Tuesday at 09:40 PM by 1980Mooney
N201MKTurbo Posted Tuesday at 09:40 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 09:40 PM 40 minutes ago, hazek said: https://lasar.com/ las-A-r, two As I typed Lasar, my IPad changed it to Laser. It actually did it again while typing this. I will try to proofread my posts better before I hit Submit.
LANCECASPER Posted Tuesday at 09:44 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 09:44 PM 46 minutes ago, hazek said: https://lasar.com/ las-A-r, two As Short for Lake Aero Styling And Repair
NickG Posted Tuesday at 09:54 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 09:54 PM 51 minutes ago, Mark89114 said: Found this listing on line. Don't know timeline if before/after the LASAR announcement. I think it is going to be a tough business. mooney.pdf 1.2 MB · 9 downloads That document was created 6/12/2019 1
MikeOH Posted Tuesday at 10:04 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 10:04 PM 9 minutes ago, NickG said: That document was created 6/12/2019 That makes me feel a lot better! (Glad I didn't see it back in 2019)
Schllc Posted Tuesday at 10:30 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 10:30 PM My home town had an old fruit of The loom factory with about 500k sqft. When the textile industry left there were no takers. it cost the city about 800k a year to do the bare minimum in maintenance. they were so desperate for someone to take it they offered huge incentives hoping someone would at least cover the expenses. it is not cheap to maintain that size facility. 1
1980Mooney Posted Tuesday at 10:37 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 10:37 PM (edited) 34 minutes ago, MikeOH said: That makes me feel a lot better! (Glad I didn't see it back in 2019) I don't know why you feel better. The "Aviation Property Network" posting "For Lease" is current. Look at the post - it says "2025 Copyright". They just happened to use an old PowerPoint slide pack from one of the many times that Kerrville County/City has needed to worry about Mooney as a tenant. Office / Shop For Lease at KERRVILLE MUNI/LOUIS SCHREINER FLD | Listing 2512 Edited Tuesday at 10:41 PM by 1980Mooney
MikeOH Posted Tuesday at 11:28 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 11:28 PM 51 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said: don't know why you feel better Because taking over an existing lease with 20 years remaining and the availability of equipment in place is a whole lot better than auctioning off said equipment. Not sure how LASAR fits into that possibility but it is at least hopeful.
Paul Thomas Posted 21 hours ago Report Posted 21 hours ago I read somewhere that LASAR was taking over the lease. It doesn't make sense for them to take over production is there is no facility to produce from. 1
hazek Posted 19 hours ago Report Posted 19 hours ago 9 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: my IPad changed it to Laser Ahh autocorrect, makes sense now
Pinecone Posted 13 hours ago Author Report Posted 13 hours ago 22 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: There is nothing saying that Mooney can’t improve their production process. I’m glad Laser is helping them out with this. No kidding. I think they could cut the manufacturing time significantly be making most of the sheet metal to be matched hole like the RV line.
Paul Thomas Posted 12 hours ago Report Posted 12 hours ago 1 hour ago, Pinecone said: No kidding. I think they could cut the manufacturing time significantly be making most of the sheet metal to be matched hole like the RV line. You'd have to invest in engineering to do that, and that's doesn't appear to be happening. Does Mooney still fabricates assemblies where it would make sense to have pre-punched holes? I wonder if a change to pre-punched would require paperwork as a change to the manufacturing process.
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