Need a new landing lifht

[jetdriven]

Got any published data on that LED?  I will give you that it has a wider beam. I have a real aircraft light as well. XeVision HID with a log entry and everything. 

 

  However, that Beechtalk thread asks what constitutes an approved landing light. If its just "PAR 46" then the tractor light meets that spec.  And farm accidents kill just as many GA crashes.

[aaronk25]

Byron,

Which wattage did you go with 30 50 or 75? Any issues with the cord shorting out at bulb connection?

[jetdriven]

50W.  The only issue is when I was installing the baffle seals. The transformer was mounted horizontally on the RH side footwell. A metal shaving from drilling found its way into the output socket which shorted out the transformer and melted the connector and blew up the transformer. 150$, a rebuilt transformer and new high-tension cable and we were flying again

[Seth]

Perehzr-

 

Thank you for the 1st hand account of AeroLEDs vs Whelen. 

 

Also, thank you for the picture of the Par 46 Whelen bulb. If my bulb was size Par46, I'd probably just go Whelen and be done, as they are bright enough, but the Par 36 as mentioned, has mixed reviews.

 

I'm going flying with a buddy (thanks Alex in advance) who has the  Whelen on his aircraft but I'm not sure if it's a Par 46 or Par 36 to see how it looks. 

 

As for HID vs LED - I've decided to LED.  I can go into my reasoning, and though it would be great to have HID, cost is a concern.

 

Thus, for two lights, I've decided after sleeping on it, I'm going to not deal with rewiringj at this time for pulsing, but instead go with just drop in replacements.  Most likely the AeroLEDs 36LX that will be produced in may, PMAed, and that will be that.  No labor charges, just swap the bulbs.

 

I will replace my current bulbs with a regular light bulb for now, and will see if AeroLEDs has a sale come Oshkosh time.

 

I am indeed shocked that my lights keep burning out, as my F model was good for 3 years and 500 hours - never a problem (single Par46).

 

However, the Missile Mod may have more vibration, and also, it may be that I've had the bottom cowling off more, and the lights are in the cowling.  Maybe when the cowling is taken off, the "boink" of it touching the ground and back, and being put in position helps cause the filaments to break.  I was thinking about this the other night.

 

I never had a light out landing in a Mooney until the first 10 hours in the Missile, then it happened again about 9 months later.  I'm putting about 70-100 hours on the aircraft every 9 months or so. 

 

Since I'll be upgrading my wingtip lights at some point similar to Bennet's, with the "recognition" lights in the wingtips that can pulse or wig-wag, or be constant, I'm going to just drop in two LEDs, one taxi and one landing light for the center cowl - no pulse, no rewiring.

 

Thus:

 

Option 4:  Less expensive ($650 at $325 each) - Wait for the LX bulbs to become availble and put one landing and taxi light in as drop in replacements.

Option 5:  Even lesser expensive ($458 at $229 each)- Put in Whelens as they are even cheaper but not as bright

Option 6:  Least Expensive - Just replace the regualr bulbs

 

I was however fascinated when talking with the Factory Rep at AeroLED, as evidently, if you get two lights in the cowl, you can set up the 36HX to pulse with a simple wire poistion.  So, with no rewiring to the panel, you just rewire for instance the taxi light, and it will pulse when "on."  I thought about that too.  Have a constant landing light, and a pulsing taxi light in the cowl.  That way, whenever my lights were on, I'd have a constant and a pulse.  The reason for the taxi light pulse is that's the recognition light that has a higher angle of viewing in the air for other aircraft to see me.  However, it would get annoying when landing at night and having the surrounding areas pulse reflect to me.  I could always also install an external switch near the landing light and just flick it to pulse or not before a flight, but I decided against the hassle.  The people at AeroLEDs are very createive. 

 

So, I'll go with probably option 4, and see if I can get an OshKosh special once the PMAed 36LX lights that are as bright as the 36HX lights are being produced and ready (late May).  I'll replace with regular bulbs for now.  Unless of course, after flying with Alex and determine the Whelen's are what I want as well.

 

If cost were no factor, HID for landing, three way taxi light (on, off, pulse).  The wiriing and installation costs would easily top $1300-1500 for that.

 

 

Thanks again,

 

-Seth

[Seth]

The tractor LEDs are also quite a neat idea.

 

-Seth

[RJBrown]

The best thing you can do for landing/taxi lights is move them out to the wings like Mooney did from about 90 on. I did it to one side of my last plane and my current one came that way. Stock bulbs 2 in each wing are better than anything you can do in the nose.

[aaronk25]

50W. The only issue is when I was installing the baffle seals. The transformer was mounted horizontally on the RH side footwell. A metal shaving from drilling found its way into the output socket which shorted out the transformer and melted the connector and blew up the transformer. 150$, a rebuilt transformer and new high-tension cable and we were flying again

So I shipped the bulb, cable and ballast back to xevision for warranty repair but in the mean time I have been thinking about how to re route (what I believe is the high tension cable) if I named it correctly going from the ballast to the light.

I have my ballast mounted vertical above the right foot well close to the right rear cowl fastner and have the cable going past the dipstick and joins the egt cht harness and goes forward below the cylinder hot air exhaust to the bulb. The only issue is when removing the cowl it requires unplugging the cable from the light. Since this is where the arching took place I'd like to eliminate connecting and reconnecting the cable at this point and when I need to de-cowl the lower section just unhook the cable from the ballast as there is less vibration at that point as compared to the connection at the bulb.

In order to do this I need to find some way of securing the cable between the ballast and bulb to the RH side of the fiberglass cowl. Any ideas?

Or else the exhaust will eat it.

Thanks,

Aaron

[Seth]

This is the link for the Grote Tractor Par36 LED that users on beachtalk have put in their aircraft.  I can copy and past that page for referances to why some think it's legal, but here is the light bulb.  LED on Amazon for $108.24.  According to the beachtalk site, they use them for taxi lights and some use them for landing lights.  There's a wide beam and a spot beam.  Similar to a taxi light and landing light.

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Grote%20Trilliant%2063821-5

 

 

Grote Trilliant® 36 LED WhiteLightTM Work Lamp 638215

 

Neat to think about, and much less expensive.  I'm still probably going to go AeroLEDs or Whelen.

 

-Seth

[N601RX]

There is another STC'd HID lighting option for some Mooneys. Floats Alaska has them, but currently they do not have Mooneys on their AML, but they have a DER who is authorized to add models  to the AML easily as long as the plane meets some installed criteria.  I took some pictures and measurements off my F model and sent to them. One of the criteria is that the bulb and reflector must be at least 4" away from the nearest exhaust pipe.  The F model is only 3.5 inches and can't be easily added.  The J might be ok as the cowl goes forward more. I also think the dual light models like Seth has would have the necessary clearance.

 

Their prices are  $550 and $650 for the PAR 36 and PAR 46.

 

http://www.aerohilights.com/pricing.html

[yvesg]

If its just "PAR 46" then the tractor light meets that spec.  And farm accidents kill just as many GA crashes.

Byron, so does any PAR 46 could be installed on a Mooney? Something like the H5001 halogen car sealbeams around $12 and 4 amps current. This is pretty cheap and would do the job right!

Yves

[jetdriven]

So I shipped the bulb, cable and ballast back to xevision for warranty repair but in the mean time I have been thinking about how to re route (what I believe is the high tension cable) if I named it correctly going from the ballast to the light.

I have my ballast mounted vertical above the right foot well close to the right rear cowl fastner and have the cable going past the dipstick and joins the egt cht harness and goes forward below the cylinder hot air exhaust to the bulb. The only issue is when removing the cowl it requires unplugging the cable from the light. Since this is where the arching took place I'd like to eliminate connecting and reconnecting the cable at this point and when I need to de-cowl the lower section just unhook the cable from the ballast as there is less vibration at that point as compared to the connection at the bulb.

In order to do this I need to find some way of securing the cable between the ballast and bulb to the RH side of the fiberglass cowl. Any ideas?

Or else the exhaust will eat it.

Thanks,

Aaron

There is a sleeve on ours fiberglassed to the cowling. We drilled small holes in it and zip tied the cable the the inside of the cowl. Our ballast is mounted on the firewall above the hot air box.

[Seth]

jetdriven, on 25 Apr 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

If its just "PAR 46" then the tractor light meets that spec.  And farm accidents kill just as many GA crashes.

 

 

 

Byron, so does any PAR 46 could be installed on a Mooney? Something like the H5001 halogen car sealbeams around $12 and 4 amps current. This is pretty cheap and would do the job right!

Yves

 

 

That's the point that they brought up on Beachtalk. 

 

Here is the link about the Grote Trilliant 63821-5

 

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=54046

 

 

-Seth

[Steve Dawson]

My 78 J has only 1 light. has anyone heard of an STC for a second?

[Seth]

Steve-

 

There has got to be an STC out there to get you a second light.  I know there is an STC to put the landing lights in the wings, a la newer Mooney models, but I hear it is expensive.

 

The reason my "J" model has two landing lights size PAR 36 vs the standard era M20J PAR 46 is because of the Missile Mod.  I have the M20K Cowling modified on the aircraft.

 

-Seth

[jetdriven]

If the landing light in the wing is on newer models, and you duplicate the factory install you can make a simple logbook entry.  It is already approved based on the parts catalog.

[bumper]

If comparing HID to LED, here's some interesting info and an easy read: http://www.innovativelight.com/led_facts/hid-vs-led-lighting/

 

When I installed AeroLeds on my Husky last year, I did a side-by-side comparison (all PAR 36) with a Q4509 quartz halogen 100 watt, a 55 watt HID (cheap automotive headlight kit, but installed in a clear PAR 36 housing, and the AeroLed SunSpot 36 (Seth mentioned). I posted the pics in another thread, so won't repeat here. However, both the HID and LED were much brighter than the Q4509 and used about half the current. Both LED and HID, to my unscientific eye, were equally bright, however the LED had a more consistent and even beam pattern.

 

The HID can be "put together", (though not legal of course) for less the $100 (ballast, lamp, and PAR 36 housing). RFI, will typically be greater than with a LED unit*, but can be reduced to an acceptable level by using a ferrite on the power leads to the ballast and by proper grounding. *LEDs may have RFI issues too, though of typically of lower amplitude and caused by the DC to DC switching circuit used in the LED constant current driver. With LEDs, not usually necessary to add a ferrite as long as grounding is per installation instructions (AeroLed).

 

LED is clearly the way lighting is headed. Lots of pluses including super long life with low output depreciation. I no longer turn off my landng light when leaving airport environs - leave them on flashing for collision avoidance with other flying objects, aluminum, plastic, or feathers.

 

 

The picture is of an experiment using two 20 watt LED wing tip recognition lights that can replace the existing 25 watt lights (that melt the lens!). Radiated heat is significantly reduced with no possibility of melting plastic (temperature rise after 3 minutes is 70 degrees F with the halogen bulb and only 10 degrees with LEDs - measured on plexi lens). My plan is to donate the design to Lake Aero Styling, so if they accept, it may be available in the future.

[Steve Dawson]

Great improvement and I hope they go ahead and make it. It would be great if they installed some white LED's along with the coloured LED nav lights for us that don't have your wing tip style. 

[SkyBound]

Seth,

 

I have two PAR 36's on my K.  Should be the same set-up as your Missile.  My C has the PAR 46.  They are currently parked in the tie-down side by side if you want to do a comparison. ;-)

 

I have been happy with the PAR 36s and don't notice much difference transitioning from the C to the K at night.  I can see the pavement fine on landing, but would like more light for taxiing.  I am looking forward to adding wingtip LED lights when those become available.

 

I have been looking at AveoEngineering and their 6-in-1 AveoMAXX.  According to the company rep they should have an STC for a Mooney any time now.

 

http://www.aveoengineering.com/index.php/product-info-aveomaxx-6in1

 

--Alex

[Seth]

The AveoEngineering 6in1 AveoMAXX is what I want in my wingtips.  To assists with making it happen, they are not landing lights nor taxi lights, but position/recognition lights.  They will of course help with landings and taxi, but their primary purpose is anti collission.

 

They will be able to:

 

Have red/green position on the wingtips, strob on the wingtips, have forward taxi/landing/recognition, wig wag, and pulse/blink/strob forward.  Great setup in the wingtip and Bennet's install shows that they fit.  It's just a matter of getting the wiring/setup/power/everything approved and okay with the Baltimore FSDO (for me anyway).

 

Alex, let's get that time setup to come check out the lighting of the K (just like mine cowl - exact setup) and the C just for kicks.  Also, do you have two landing light whelens or one taxi and one landing light in the nose?

 

-Seth

[SkyBound]

Seth,

 

I have two landing Whelen lights.  The mechanic ordered two of the same.  I am working on getting one switched to a Whelen taxi light.

 

--Alex

[Seth]

Bumber-

 

Great information - thank you - and very neat picture.

 

Steve - call some of the LED companies - they may already have such a product but have not STCed it yet - could be smart for the Mooney fleet to have that sort of bulb available.  Lot's of C, E, and F's with the older wingtips out there.

 

-Seth

[Steve Dawson]

Good to know Seth. Thanks

I have an early J with the straight cut wing tips similar to the C, E's and F's

[Seth]

Ok, so I went to replace my landing lights over the weekend with regular bulbs one more time.  I could not figure out where the filament was broken in either bulb as both looked fine.  In the back of my mind I was thinking I may have an electrical problem or that maybe when the bottom cowling was off the wires were not reconnected, or something, but as it turned out . . .

 

When I pulled the co-pilot side light, one wire was connected, and the other terminal had broken off, but was still screwed in. 

 

As in the terminal itself broke off the back of the light, with the wires still screwed into the terminal, but connected to nothing.  This caused the circut to not be complete, and thus when I installed the co-pilot side bulb, and checked to make sure it worked, both lit up. 

 

So, my MSC is replacing that bulb for free (they'll send it back to the manufacturer since the terminal snapped off, not the filament burning out) and I thank Alex for giving me his used bulbs when he replaced his plane with LED lamps. 

 

I still plan to replace the lights with LED -  one taxi and one landing light, either AeroLEDs 36LX or Whelen, but for now I've got lights on the front end again.

 

Take care,

 

-Seth

[Scott Aviation]

So a few months ago my Par46 galaxy POS bulb burnt out as I was doing a "dusk" landing.  I've been pondering switching to LED for a while now looking at all the options, HID, tractor LED's, build my own system etc.  All too complicated in my opinion, Keep it simple under the cowling is my final thought so I went with Whelen Parmetheus Par46 from aircraftspruce for $280.  Done.  I installed it and will "cross my fingers" never have to worry about it again.  Love the next to zero power draw.

 

-  I've also switched out my tail light and nav lights for LED's too.  total cost $60.  Here are some pictures of what I went with.  The results are amazing brightness and extremly low power draw on the plane.

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/album/13752-final-flying/

[Awqward]

Stupid question, and I recall it being discussed somewhere on here but I couldn't find it: Is changing out a GE halogen for a Whelen LED considered preventive maintenance (ie owner permitted under Part 43 App A) or an alteration? If an alteration presumably it is Minor....