N-registered Mooney down in Slovenia

[Igor_U]

Not much of the details are known but it seems weather was bad. There are few news links at this ANS page:

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/484185

It's an M20R Ovation. I always wondered about N-Registered planes based and operating in Europe; how does it work, are there any advantages? 

 

[Mooney in Oz]

13 hours ago, Igor_U said:

Not much of the details are known but it seems weather was bad. There are few news links at this ANS page:

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/484185

It's an M20R Ovation. I always wondered about N-Registered planes based and operating in Europe; how does it work, are there any advantages? 

 

It reads to me like a spacial disorientation loss of control ending in a spiral at a serious rate of descent.

[Ibra]

16 hours ago, Igor_U said:

I always wondered about N-Registered planes based and operating in Europe; how does it work, are there any advantages?

Historically yes as FAA rules for licensing, operation and maintenance were lighter and pragmatic for private operations, the JAA/JAR required compliance with airline rules. Less advantages now as new EASA rules were tailored for GA operations and they have mirrored FAA rules when it comes to non commercial operations (NCO, Part-ML...are now in force since 2020) 

Pilots can have N-Registered aircraft based in Europe as long as they have "dual papers" for EASA & FAA licences 

 

 

 

[AJ88V]

Sorry for the loss of one of our brethren.  Clear skies and tailwinds.

[mike_elliott]

If anyone has any contact info for the pilot surviving spouse, please let me know and I will have the Mooney Summit’s Bill Gilliland foundation engage

[Ibra]

11 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

If anyone has any contact info for the pilot surviving spouse, please let me know and I will have the Mooney Summit’s Bill Gilliland foundation engage

Thanks for what you are doing for fellow Mooniacs !

I don't have family contacts, but the pilot name was released to press today, 

https://www.observatoiredeleurope.com/le-contributeur-suedois-de-la-baie-de-pirate-de-pirate-carl-lundstrom-decede-en-slovenie_a65169.html

Edited March 12 by Ibra

[MatthiasArnold]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lundström

[Schllc]

My understanding is that the ultra’s are not “certified” or whatever language Europe uses so in order for owners to keep them there, they must retain an n-number. 
it may be the acclaim only, not sure, but that was the reason one I looked at ferrying from Switzerland still had an n-number. 
I believe the only advantage would be the ease of selling since the US is the majority of the worlds GA. 

[Fritz1]

VAT or sales tax is much higher in most European countries, IFR ticket more complicated to get and currency more complicated since weather much more diverse per distance traveled, Europe is much further North than most of the US, Rome Italy is at the latitude of New York City, colder, more icing than most of the US

[1980Mooney]

14 hours ago, Fritz1 said:

VAT or sales tax is much higher in most European countries, IFR ticket more complicated to get and currency more complicated since weather much more diverse per distance traveled, Europe is much further North than most of the US, Rome Italy is at the latitude of New York City, colder, more icing than most of the US

At first I wondered why an heir to the Wasabröd fortune would be flying a 2005 Ovation or why the higher cost to fly in Europe would really matter to him - why wasn't he flying a pressurized turboprop or Visionjet?  But digging deeper I see he filed for bankruptcy in 2009, served time in prison for corporate copyright infringement, financed ultra right wing efforts, was a Holocaust denier on Facebook and was still pursued by Sweden for about $13 million in unpaid debts.  He lived in Switzerland to try to shield himself.

[Fritz1]

lots of mountains in Slowenia, icing ugly, no NEXRAD, RIP!

[MatthiasArnold]

3 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

But digging deeper I see he filed for bankruptcy in 2009, served time in prison for corporate copyright infringement, financed ultra right wing efforts, was a Holocaust denier on Facebook and was still pursued by Sweden for about $13 million in unpaid debts.

.. same findings here ..

[MatthiasArnold]

2 hours ago, Fritz1 said:

lots of mountains in Slowenia, icing ugly

True!

Looking at the FlySto data provided by ASN,

• Speed and altitude remained stable until entering the right hand spiral/ turn, so no icing as root cause seems unlikely. 
• Altitude was FL95, which may indicate VFR flight (maybe).
• On that day, weather conditions south of the Alps were unfavorable:
  • QNH Milano 1009, QNH Zürich 1000  ->
  • Föhn winds from south,
  • Mountain waves over the Alps (I saw the Lenticularis clouds while skiing in Engelberg/Titlis, Switzerland),
  • Cloud accumulation on the southern side of the Alps.
• Although the Slowenian “Karawanken” mountains are located further south/east of the main Alpine ridge, weather conditions there were likely unfavorable as well.

All of this, of course, hypothetical ..

 

[MatthiasArnold]

Thanks to the exceptionally friendly service at AustroControl, I was able to obtain copies of the LLSWC charts for the Alps, created through a joint effort between MeteoSwiss and AustroControl.

For me personally, these charts — hand-drawn by highly knowledgeable meteorologists from Switzerland and Austria who truly understand Alpine weather — are the primary weather source whenever I’m planning to cross the Alps.

The accident occurred at approximately 0820Z.
The two available charts were valid for 0600Z and 1000Z, respectively.
So, the situation can be seen as a kind of average between the two charts.

The flight originated from LDZA (Zagreb, Croatia), located towards the eastern part of the chart, and proceeded northwest towards LJLJ (Ljubljana, Slovenia).

• There were strong winds over the Alps and the Karawanken mountain range (between Slovenia and Austria), with a prevailing southerly Föhn and associated mountain waves over the Alps.
• Cloud build-up was occurring on the southern side of the Alps — at 0600Z, cloud coverage was BKN/OVC between FL030–FL060 with tops above FL250. By 1000Z, the situation had worsened with overcast nimbostratus (OVC NS) from FL030–FL060, again with tops above FL250, along with embedded cumulonimbus (CB) and thunderstorms (TS). Icing was present between FL070–FL180, and snowfall above FL060.
• While skies over LDZA were still clear at 0600Z, a thick cloud layer had already formed over LJLJ and was moving northeast. By 1000Z, this cloud layer covered the entire route from LDZA to Switzerland.

Long story short — these were far from ideal conditions for flying directly from LDZA to Switzerland, even under IFR with TKS and additional equipment. (And remember — the flight was at FL095, which at least suggests it was filed as VFR.)

A potentially better, though still quite turbulent route, would have been from LDZA north via Graz (LOWG) and Salzburg (LOWS) to Friedrichshafen (EDNY), but yeah, …
Matthias

For reference
LLSWC Alps symbols

[NickG]

On 3/12/2025 at 2:42 PM, Schllc said:

My understanding is that the ultra’s are not “certified” or whatever language Europe uses so in order for owners to keep them there, they must retain an n-number. 
it may be the acclaim only, not sure, but that was the reason one I looked at ferrying from Switzerland still had an n-number. 
I believe the only advantage would be the ease of selling since the US is the majority of the worlds GA. 

This was an Ovation 2GX

[MatthiasArnold]

56 minutes ago, NickG said:

This was an Ovation 2GX

Correct

[Ibra]

On 3/12/2025 at 10:42 PM, Schllc said:

My understanding is that the ultra’s are not “certified” or whatever language Europe uses so in order for owners to keep them there, they must retain an n-number.

This one is an Ovation, it has EASA TCDS and can be moved into EASA-reg with no issues

Yes sometimes it make sense to keep N-reg because of certification or modifications, for instance, the 310hp STC by Midwest for Eagles and Ovations is approved by FAA but not yet approved by EASA in Europe or CAA in UK, it's a lengthy path to get this one validated, so the pilots will have to stay with de-rate engine at 2500rpm as they transfer registration to Europe.

In the other hand, some standard modifications can be done on EASA (CS-STAN) by pilot without requiring inspector signoff (337).

These are examples out of many, 

Edited March 18 by Ibra

[Ibra]

17 hours ago, MatthiasArnold said:

Long story short — these were far from ideal conditions for flying directly from LDZA to Switzerland, even under IFR with TKS and additional equipment. (And remember — the flight was at FL095, which at least suggests it was filed as VFR.)

I agree, even higher winds were challenging (beyond what one would go for when flying with passengers, maybe ok when flying alone), the cloud were building up by 1000, then things grow fast as the sun raises and likely unflyable at all by midday 

The Alps require good VMC for VFR crossing. For IFR, one need pressurization to fly VMC on top and maintain vectoring levels that Swiss ATC like.

The backup route for return from Croatia VFR or low IFR is usually via Corsica, it needs Avgas, this has extra costs in terms of money and time, however, it's way bellow the entry cost required for aircraft equipment to fly in Alps that day: that SigWX chart seems to indicate one need +FL250 aircraft ! 

The valley flying in such marginal eather is better left to those based in those corners, someone transiting the area does not have enough elements and experience to judge how far actual from forcasts in unfamiliar ridges and valleys...

The pilot holds an FAA 61.75 based on FOCA PPL without FAA instrument ticket, he likely was not legally rated to fly IFR, I am not sure if he is rated or trained to fly IMC at FL95 or how much VFR valley experience he has? this point is likely moot because the aircraft is not the right one and he was not properly equipped for that route at that time, it can't fly fast and high above the cloud tops and can't fly low and slow under the cloud bases...

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18 by Ibra