New airplane.... what am I missing?????

[Hank]

47 minutes ago, goodyFAB said:

12k for an oxygen bottle?

Looks to me like it's $3K for O2, and $12K for the new, larger brakes. But what do I know, my C doesn't have either, that's just how I read it [item(price) + next item(next price)].

[donkaye]

21 minutes ago, Hank said:

Looks to me like it's $3K for O2, and $12K for the new, larger brakes. But what do I know, my C doesn't have either, that's just how I read it [item(price) + next item(next price)].

3K for O2 Bottle plus installation; 12K for upgraded brake system.  Without the upgraded brakes the pucks have to be replaced about every 70 hours.

[cliffy]

43 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Without the upgraded brakes the pucks have to be replaced about every 70 hours.

Every 70 hrs? You're landing too fast and stay off of the brakes!!!!!   (as I can hear my mentor saying even today 60 years  later :-)

As Jimmy says- " What could possibly go wrong?"   :-) :-)

Unused/low use airplanes suffer the exact same fate as low/unused Rolls Royces - exactly the same fates.

Everyone wants that museum quality garage find airplane (Rolls Royce) with low time for a bargain price but they usually

find the first annual makes up for the low initial buy in. (and I know Rolls Royces!)

[donkaye]

3 hours ago, cliffy said:

Every 70 hrs? You're landing too fast and stay off of the brakes!!!!!   (as I can hear my mentor saying even today 60 years  later :-)

As Jimmy says- " What could possibly go wrong?"   :-) :-)

Unused/low use airplanes suffer the exact same fate as low/unused Rolls Royces - exactly the same fates.

Everyone wants that museum quality garage find airplane (Rolls Royce) with low time for a bargain price but they usually

find the first annual makes up for the low initial buy in. (and I know Rolls Royces!)

So I just completed a basic training with a new student who bought an Acclaim Type-S.  He had just gotten his Private license a few weeks earlier.  I didn't have the time to teach him about the LA area so I referred him to another good friend and 787 Captain for additional training in the LA area.  My friend objected to several items from my teaching: First, he wanted all trims set before taxiing, and second he really objected to my teaching where the aim point should be, about 400 feet before the threshold.  That all sounds reasonable, right?  Wrong!   Set the rudder trim full right before taxiing and the plane will want to go right all the way down the taxiway because the rudder is connected to the nose wheel in the Mooney.  Aim for the threshold and you'll have difficulty landing on a very short runway such as Oceano (L52) with the long body Mooney.  I always teach to land assuming a short runway.  Unless you have an extended amount of time teaching in such planes even a really good non Mooney instructor really wouldn't know that.  I have a few hours teaching Mooneys (see https://donkaye.com/flight-instruction).  Personally, I don't know of anyone else with more Mooney teaching time.  I've specialized in Mooney instruction nearly full time for the past 31 years.  I know how to control speed down to the knot and slope to less than a degree and I teach the same.  So when I say the pucks need to be changed in the long body Mooney with the old 2 puck braking system about every 70 hours, it's not because I come in too fast.  There was a reason Mooney changed to the 4 puck system.  2 pucks on a 2740 pound airplane are quite different than 2 pucks on a 3368 pound airplane.  Of course you could land and not apply brakes and chew up a lot of runway.  Of course you could aim for the threshold and sometimes due to obstacles you have to.  But most of the time you don't have to.  The 4 puck braking system on all long body Mooneys starting with 27-107 (mine is 27-106. I just missed it) was a big benefit and a worthy upgrade.

I agree with the Rolls Royce comments having owned mine since 1979.

[Danb]

Donny boy seems like u keep things a long time, and I’ll begin like new condition 

D

[AJ88V]

Well, the short and simple story is one would be lucky to get this plane truly airworthy for $120K cost plus $80K min, which puts the purchase into a whole 'nother level, so it would be better to just start looking at $200K+ airplanes (which I'm just not needing to do! :D)

Of course, one might get lucky and it's a lot easier than that, but this plane seriously exceeds my mission needs.  The extra complications and costs come with drawbacks as well as benefits.  Back to looking for a J or similar NA plane.  Or just upgrade my wholesome little C!

 

[goodyFAB]

10 hours ago, donkaye said:

3K for O2 Bottle plus installation; 12K for upgraded brake system.  Without the upgraded brakes the pucks have to be replaced about every 70 hours.

I see, I was thinking "that's more than I thought to replace oxygen bottle". sometimes the mind sees what it wants lol 

[goodyFAB]

6 hours ago, donkaye said:

So I just completed a basic training with a new student who bought an Acclaim Type-S.  He had just gotten his Private license a few weeks earlier.  I didn't have the time to teach him about the LA area so I referred him to another good friend and 787 Captain for additional training in the LA area.  My friend objected to several items from my teaching: First, he wanted all trims set before taxiing, and second he really objected to my teaching where the aim point should be, about 400 feet before the threshold.  That all sounds reasonable, right?  Wrong!   Set the rudder trim full right before taxiing and the plane will want to go right all the way down the taxiway because the rudder is connected to the nose wheel in the Mooney.  Aim for the threshold and you'll have difficulty landing on a very short runway such as Oceano (L52) with the long body Mooney.  I always teach to land assuming a short runway.  Unless you have an extended amount of time teaching in such planes even a really good non Mooney instructor really wouldn't know that.  I have a few hours teaching Mooneys (see https://donkaye.com/flight-instruction).  Personally, I don't know of anyone else with more Mooney teaching time.  I've specialized in Mooney instruction nearly full time for the past 31 years.  I know how to control speed down to the knot and slope to less than a degree and I teach the same.  So when I say the pucks need to be changed in the long body Mooney with the old 2 puck braking system about every 70 hours, it's not because I come in too fast.  There was a reason Mooney changed to the 4 puck system.  2 pucks on a 2740 pound airplane are quite different than 2 pucks on a 3368 pound airplane.  Of course you could land and not apply brakes and chew up a lot of runway.  Of course you could aim for the threshold and sometimes due to obstacles you have to.  But most of the time you don't have to.  The 4 puck braking system on all long body Mooneys starting with 27-107 (mine is 27-106. I just missed it) was a big benefit and a worthy upgrade.

I agree with the Rolls Royce comments having owned mine since 1979.

my rocket seems to use pads too, 100hrs they are done and its possible to kill them in 70 as I did my first year. when the mid body rocket is heavy the brakes are entirely inadequate for an emergency stop or anything like that. I would imagine a long body would be even worse.

go and get in a Cessna and apply the same pressure everything in the plane moves forward !!!

[Hank]

29 minutes ago, goodyFAB said:

my rocket seems to use pads too, 100hrs they are done and its possible to kill them in 70 as I did my first year.

I rarely use my brakes other than engine start, runup and stopping to park. I do brake gently when exiting the runway, but rarely feel pressure to make any particular turnoff; at home (5000') there are now only three runway exits--at each end, and one spot off-center since the FAA made everyone remove ramp entrances to the runway. 

When landing uphill on 36, it's an easy turnoff, but going downhill on 18 I often just roll to the end, as the exit is closer coming that way.

In 1000+ hours, I've replaced my brake pads once that I remember. At 2575 gross, though, I'd expect much less wear than a long body with one third higher gross weight.

[NickG]

14 hours ago, goodyFAB said:

12k for an oxygen bottle?

12,000(New 4 Puck Brakes)

[bluehighwayflyer]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

I rarely use my brakes other than engine start, runup and stopping to park. I do brake gently when exiting the runway, but rarely feel pressure to make any particular turnoff; at home (5000') there are now only three runway exits--at each end, and one spot off-center since the FAA made everyone remove ramp entrances to the runway. 

When landing uphill on 36, it's an easy turnoff, but going downhill on 18 I often just roll to the end, as the exit is closer coming that way.

In 1000+ hours, I've replaced my brake pads once that I remember. At 2575 gross, though, I'd expect much less wear than a long body with one third higher gross weight.

Same here, Hank.  I hardly ever even use my brakes except during the run up.  I replace the pads occasionally when the spirit moves me, just because.  Embarrassingly infrequently, actually. Apparently this is an area where the heavier M20s are a whole ‘nother plane.  

[goodyFAB]

4 hours ago, Hank said:

I rarely use my brakes other than engine start, runup and stopping to park. I do brake gently when exiting the runway, but rarely feel pressure to make any particular turnoff; at home (5000') there are now only three runway exits--at each end, and one spot off-center since the FAA made everyone remove ramp entrances to the runway. 

When landing uphill on 36, it's an easy turnoff, but going downhill on 18 I often just roll to the end, as the exit is closer coming that way.

In 1000+ hours, I've replaced my brake pads once that I remember. At 2575 gross, though, I'd expect much less wear than a long body with one third higher gross weight.

I live on a 2000' runway, on this no wind days and 90* x wind days id roll into a river !!!

[donkaye]

4 hours ago, NickG said:

12,000(New 4 Puck Brakes)

It's a lot more than just pucks.  If I remember correctly, it involves new axels and gears doors along with the whole 4 puck assembly.  It also may have involved different disks, too.  Plus there is a lot of labor involved, as the gear doors have to be trimmed to fit.

[NickG]

16 minutes ago, donkaye said:

It's a lot more than just pucks.  If I remember correctly, it involves new axels and gears doors along with the whole 4 puck assembly.  It also may have involved different disks, too.  Plus there is a lot of labor involved, as the gear doors have to be trimmed to fit.

Is that what was needed to get the gross weight increase?

[IvanP]

14 minutes ago, donkaye said:

It's a lot more than just pucks.  If I remember correctly, it involves new axels and gears doors along with the whole 4 puck assembly.  It also may have involved different disks, too.  Plus there is a lot of labor involved, as the gear doors have to be trimmed to fit.

The pucks are the cheapest part here.The middle gear doors alone are $1,800 each side for this mod. I just had to replace one on my plane recently. PLus new disks, calipers, master cylinders, etc. 

[wombat]

3 hours ago, goodyFAB said:

I live on a 2000' runway, on this no wind days and 90* x wind days id roll into a river !!!

I'm on a 2701' runway (2501' because of displaced threshold on runway 28) at 1602' elevation and in my Rocket if I want to roll down to the end I barely use the brakes at all.

The airport is usually very un-busy, so I don't mind rolling down a little farther and taxiing back to the mid-field turnoff.

Sometimes I try to make the taxiway (1,250 from one end, 1050 from the other) and if I do that I'm burning up the brakes.  And tires.

[LANCECASPER]

The single puck brakes are another reason why the M20L (originally Porsche) Mooney that’s converted to an IO-550 is not equivalent to an Eagle or Ovation. All of the M20Ls had single puck brakes and I don’t believe dual puck was part of the IO-550 STC.

[cliffy]

22 hours ago, donkaye said:

So I just completed a basic training with a new student who bought an Acclaim Type-S.  He had just gotten his Private license a few weeks earlier.  I didn't have the time to teach him about the LA area so I referred him to another good friend and 787 Captain for additional training in the LA area.  My friend objected to several items from my teaching: First, he wanted all trims set before taxiing, and second he really objected to my teaching where the aim point should be, about 400 feet before the threshold.  That all sounds reasonable, right?  Wrong!   Set the rudder trim full right before taxiing and the plane will want to go right all the way down the taxiway because the rudder is connected to the nose wheel in the Mooney.  Aim for the threshold and you'll have difficulty landing on a very short runway such as Oceano (L52) with the long body Mooney.  I always teach to land assuming a short runway.  Unless you have an extended amount of time teaching in such planes even a really good non Mooney instructor really wouldn't know that.  I have a few hours teaching Mooneys (see https://donkaye.com/flight-instruction).  Personally, I don't know of anyone else with more Mooney teaching time.  I've specialized in Mooney instruction nearly full time for the past 31 years.  I know how to control speed down to the knot and slope to less than a degree and I teach the same.  So when I say the pucks need to be changed in the long body Mooney with the old 2 puck braking system about every 70 hours, it's not because I come in too fast.  There was a reason Mooney changed to the 4 puck system.  2 pucks on a 2740 pound airplane are quite different than 2 pucks on a 3368 pound airplane.  Of course you could land and not apply brakes and chew up a lot of runway.  Of course you could aim for the threshold and sometimes due to obstacles you have to.  But most of the time you don't have to.  The 4 puck braking system on all long body Mooneys starting with 27-107 (mine is 27-106. I just missed it) was a big benefit and a worthy upgrade.

I agree with the Rolls Royce comments having owned mine since 1979.

Not trying to disparage you in anyway. You  are probably in the top 3 Money instructors in the country in  my mind. The comment wasn't meant to be pointed at you specifically. 

Only trying in jest to make a point about landing speeds.  I can short field mine all day long inside 1200 feet but do have to lay on the brakes to do it (about 2700 hrs in this Mooney). My mentor was in the right seat of  a Navajo saying what I quoted when I took over the job many years ago. I taught the same even in Boeings. I dont know what kind of runways you use (short-long) but here in SGU (3000' alt and hot) I can land and have to add power to make the  mid field turn off (@4600') but in a D model. Even in my Twin Comanche I had to add power to make the mid turn off. and that was  70 over the fence also. 

We sit and watch landings by our hangars here and 3 out of 4 Mooneys are 80+ over the numbers and PIO down the runway for 2000 feet.

It happens every day as do the Cirrus drivers. Same problem different airframe.