Mooney mulling

[Mister_Bevilaqua]

Howdy folks! I am a low time pilot who took a long hiatus from flying but I am now actively working towards my instrument and planning to get my tail wheel endorsement and take a back country course following that. I have always admired the M20 line ever since I first laid eyes upon a M20J some 20 years ago. I actually flew to the plant in Kerrville when I was working on my private along with my CFI at the time and checked out some new Mooney M20R's in person. As an engineer myself I have always admired Al Mooney and appreciated his oddball story in the industry and I recently acquired and read "The Al Mooney Story" and "Those Remarkable Mooney's" thanks in part to the suggestion(s) in threads on this very forum which I have been reading quietly in the wings as a non-user for years. Now I have an even better appreciation for the man and the aircraft he brought about which is strengthening my desire to own one. 

I am finally to a point in life where I am getting serious about considering a plane of my own and I have it narrowed down to either a M20 (not sure on which sub model) or a Cessna 180 Skywagon. I have long been enamored with back country flying, tail draggers in general but very specifically the Skywagon and Stinson's. I see the tail wheel as the 4x4 of the flying world with it's off field capabilities. Unfortunately I live in Texas where there's very little opportunity to do such flying or at least in comparison to those out west short of the grass fields, random buddies ranch's, islands at a few lakes, occasionally river sandbars or possibly a trip up to Arkansas. The value per dollar for a solid 180 is low especially when compared to that of a Mooney, they simply command a large price tag for what they are in my honest opinion. I day dream about flying out and camping under the wing of a Skywagon on a random weekend just for fun and still being able to use it for extended get aways in the region. Then there's the Mooney....

We spend time in Florida a few times each year as well as annual trips to Colorado and Georgia. I can see the Mooney being beneficial for that kind of travel with it's speed and decent range. I love the idea of getting to the panhandle of Florida in under three hours instead of the 11+ it takes us to drive there. There are definitely more M20's on the market than 180's at any given time and there's quite the variance in age, condition, total time, avionics, sub model, price etc. You definitely get more bang for your buck with a Mooney IMHO than you ever will with a Skywagon. 

I guess what I am pondering is do I buy the passion purchase plane that doesn't really fit the profile of what I have regular access to or do I buy the more sensible plane that fills the  travel role nicely but won't fit the bill in terms of having the option of going off field when the oddball opportunity arises? I am still trying to decide between a M20C/E vs. a mid body should I lean towards the Mooney. Neither plane is still in production but the Mooney's were still produced up until very recently and they are more plentiful on the open market. I feel like parts availability is a wash but I have no idea if Mooney parts are as expensive as anything Cessna?! What's the going rate for a MOH on a IO-60 vs. a turbo model? Any insight or words of advice here would be much appreciated. 

 

[donkaye]

Without being sarcastic, if you are considering one of the earlier short bodied Mooneys, they are relatively inexpensive.  Why don't you buy both types of planes?   I once had a student who had cashed out of a tech company and couldn't make up his mind between a Mooney Bravo and a Bonanza A36.  His wife suggested he buy both and he did.  He added a PC 12 a few years later.

[dlthig]

You are talking about two completely different aircraft and completely different missions. I purchased a Supercub a couple of years ago. It's as practical as a Vespa on an interstate. On a fair weather day nothing beats flying with the door open and dropping into grass fields. You will enjoy the back country aspect of the Skywagon, but you need to understand it's limitations as well. If you are serious about going down that road, I'd recommend you figure out the tailwheel flying now. It is an absolute art and perishable skill, but if it's part of your foundational learning you will retain that skill longer. I honestly believe tailwheel pilots make better pilots overall. During my V1 cuts in the sim my nose doesn't move, I'm hyperfocused on runway centerline. You have to be with a tailwheel. Crosswinds will be a major concern and you will at least initially be limited in your runways with regard to crosswinds. My SC gets my attention about once every quarter, I get lazy and she will remind me that I'm not done flying until the brakes are set. Generally, just add power and go around and try again usually works out OK. '

You already know about Mooneys and tricycle gear airplanes. TW are a niche, while tricycles are mainstream. Depending on you mission, sounds like you enjoy travelling, a J will be hard to beat. You need to decide if you want distance, J, or weeds, TW. If you want the best of both worlds, buy a cheap Aeronca Champ or J3 and a J. After a year or two look back and see which one you flew more. Also, consider insurance. I have a friend who purchased a TW a few years ago and paid $10K just for that airplane. He had no TW time, but owns several airplanes and had several thousand hours. Good luck. 

[Hank]

For a "both" idea, look for C/E/F rather than a J, then you will have budget left over for a tailwheel purchase. (What is your budget?)

I love my C, and have traveled from Niagara to Yellowstone to Ft. Lauderdale. Houston to East Alabama averages a little under 4 hours, I'm a Mooney hour due north of Panama City; an F model should have a little longer range, but honestly after 4 hours, I'm ready to stand up and walk around. 

Enjoy them hunt, get a pre-purchase inspection by a knowledgeable person, and fly safe!

[Fritz1]

Test fly all of them, talk to the owners, get an idea for an annual operating budget, the journey is the destination!

[Mister_Bevilaqua]

6 hours ago, donkaye said:

Without being sarcastic, if you are considering one of the earlier short bodied Mooneys, they are relatively inexpensive.  Why don't you buy both types of planes?   I once had a student who had cashed out of a tech company and couldn't make up his mind between a Mooney Bravo and a Bonanza A36.  His wife suggested he buy both and he did.  He added a PC 12 a few years later.

I have considered doing just that, grabbing a M20C/E and dropping back to a 170B instead of a Skywagon. Sadly the clean 170B's have gotten up to nearly 180 pricing in recent years which kind of muddies that prospect some but if I am patient I should be able to find a clean short body M20 and an early, mostly original 170B for the price of a solid 180. 

[PT20J]

Just remember that old airplanes may be relatively inexpensive to purchase, but the maintenance costs are more closely related to the cost of a newer airplane and insurance and hangar expenses have to be figured in.

[Mister_Bevilaqua]

Thanks for all of the replies thus far. I understand these are very different missions and desires but that's where I find myself torn between two worlds. I have considered getting both as I mentioned above so that hasn't been ruled out just yet. We do travel and that's where the Mooney will shine. We don't have any children so a short body could work for the two of us 90% of the time but I would like the option to be able to carry a second couple from time to time with light luggage for a short weekend trip.

I have looked at both short body model M20's and J/K mid-body's as well. I looked at a 300 Missle a few weeks back and the performance of that engine definitely intrigued me but I am not sure how much variance there is in price between an overhaul with the IO-550 vs. a TIO-360?!

[wombat]

Very few people fly enough to make it 'worth' owning two planes.

With one partner per plane this cuts your costs in half, but with just one other partner per plane the actual availability of each plane for your flights will probably not change at all.

[Mister_Bevilaqua]

2 hours ago, wombat said:

Very few people fly enough to make it 'worth' owning two planes.

With one partner per plane this cuts your costs in half, but with just one other partner per plane the actual availability of each plane for your flights will probably not change at all.

 

Great point!

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Mister_Bevilaqua said:

I have looked at both short body model M20's and J/K mid-body's as well. I looked at a 300 Missle a few weeks back 

Just remember:

Short body Mooney = A, B, C, D, E

Mid-body Mooney = F, J, K

The J model is just an F with improved aerodynamics, and is newer because the J replaced the F (and is therefore priced higher).

[Bartman]

I love my J, and we have taken other couples on trips many times.  It requires 1.5 - 2 hour fuel stops, but not a deal breaker.  The F model becomes very attractive if you want the best entry cost, enough space, and useful load to fly another couple.  Many of them are modified and essentially a J model.

[MikeOH]

4 hours ago, Bartman said:

I love my J, and we have taken other couples on trips many times.  It requires 1.5 - 2 hour fuel stops, but not a deal breaker.  The F model becomes very attractive if you want the best entry cost, enough space, and useful load to fly another couple.  Many of them are modified and essentially a J model.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

I'm biased, owning an F, but it is 95% of a J for 75% of the money.

[Max Clark]

I'm going to lead in by writing this. Before I happened upon my M20R I wasn't interested in Mooneys, wasn't looking for a Mooney, had never dreamed about buying a Mooney. It's an absolutely amazing plane and I couldn't imagine owning anything else (well maybe a M20TN down the road).

There's something to be said for buying the right plane for the mission. If you're dreaming about backcountry and grass strips, you should buy the plane that lets you do that. I'd bet if you had the option you'd fly into soft field more than you'd imagine now.

If you didn't know, there's a Facebook group specifically for Texas Grass Runways https://www.facebook.com/groups/825561097600485

Life is short - take advantage while you can.

[Pinecone]

I am the wrong person to ask.

I went the path of one of each.  But in my case traveling and a plane that would fly upside down, more than once.

I have a M20K 252 and a CAP-10.

[Hank]

59 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

I am the wrong person to ask.

I went the path of one of each.  But in my case traveling and a plane that would fly upside down, more than once.

I have a M20K 252 and a CAP-10.

Nice! If I get a second plane, it will have a second wing, and annual will be six months from the Mooney's.

[icurnmedic]

10 hours ago, MikeOH said:

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

I'm biased, owning an F, but it is 95% of a J for 75% of the money.

Mooney forum so you are going to get a lot of suggestions in favor of the Mooney. Probably good advice.

IMO , The F may be the best “value “in the fleet. Plenty fast at 150kts TAS, typically has more payload as well. Mine had 650lbs payload 

+ 64 gallons of fuel, and I couldn’t seem to get it out of balance. Usually considerably cheaper than a J or later. I would find the nicest I could find up front, even if costs a little more, and you likely will save in the long run. Enjoy the hunt. 

[Hank]

If it's just the two of you, a good C or E can be a good choice. I sometimes fly 4 people in my C, useful load is 969 lb or me, full fuel and 469 lb.

Either way, have fun! Life is too short . . .

[Pinecone]

13 hours ago, Hank said:

Nice! If I get a second plane, it will have a second wing, and annual will be six months from the Mooney's.

Annuals are about 6 months apart.  Insurance is about 3 - 4.

I like the side by side and great visibility.   Once I get a handle on it and get comfortable, there will be an open invite to come visit and see the world upside down.