Cost of Major Overhaul?

[HopePilot]

Sorry, to annoy everyone again, but in my neverending search to buy a Mooney has me considering an unpleasant option.  Many of the planes for sale are in need of, or overdue for a major overhaul (and they don't usually factor it into the price).  I know they are thinking, "well, there's nothing wrong with it now, so you'll probably get a couple years).  As a teacher, I'd like to worry about a rebuild in ten, not two years.  Still, it's causing me to overlook a lot of planes.  Here's my question.  For those of you who just did a major overhaul, how much did it cost you?  I would be looking at the least expensive, but best bang for the buck option (so probably not "O" time).  This is just a theoretical question, to hell in the shopping process, but I thank you for your help.

Bonus question:  How much would you deduct from the price of a plane that is at TBO?

[Parker_Woodruff]

I priced overhauls for the M20J before purchasing mine.  It looks like I'll be spending about $25,000-$28,000 to have a reputable shop overhaul my engine.  When the time comes I'll need to see what AirPower is quoting for factory overhaul exchange engines.

[GeorgePerry]

For and IO-360 plan on $27-33K for a Factory overhaul.  Reputable shop, $20-28K Shade tree overhaul $15K and up.  

As for price figure out the Fair Market Value for a plane with a 0 SFRM and subtract about $25K.  In other words don't consider the "asking price" that's irrelevant.  If the plane is worth 100K with a zero time engine, and the current motor is run out (either in hours or years since OH) then a fair price is about $75K

Owners will usually counter with..."it still has some time left on it" but the counter to that is, if you buy a high time engine, your the one who has to deal with the headaches of getting the OH done.  

[Buster1]

I've seen a little of the same in my search for the best 252 I can afford.  For me, I plan on financing a large chunk of the final purchase.  I guess if I found the right plane, with a 'worn' engine for $25k less than the average, I would buy it and have it immediately overhauled while financing the additional $25k into the overall figure.  Yeah, it's more financing, but it would be the right plane for me with a 'new' engine at the right price.  It's a little more headache, but at least you have a starting point for the engine, vs hoping for the best on one with 800 hrs to go to TBO.

[HopePilot]

George and Parker should be sainted for putting up with all my questions.  I probably would have given up and bought a Bonanza if it wasn't for them.

So, some of the planes I've seen have had a top overhaul, presumably, to buy the owner more time so that I can come along later and get have to do the bottom.  If you buy a plane that has 700 hrs on a top overhaul and just have the bottom done, can you then say you are 700 since major overhaul?

Thanks again.

[Rustler]

In July, I purchased an engine from Western Skyways that had undergone a "major overhaul." I put it that way because I wanted to change my M20J's IO360A3B6D to an IO360A3B6, which has two separate mags, not the single-shaft mag that is on the original engine. Essentially, a "firewall-forward" was accomplished, and the cost was about $28K in the end.

If you want to understand the rebuilt-engine terminology, take a look at the publication that can be found here:

http://www.airresearch.com/demo/files/4311.RTF

That should answer your last question.

[HopePilot]

Thanks Michael, that document is very helpful.  I think if you had the bottom done (and the top had been done recently), as long as everything was inspected, tested and repaired to "serviceable limits" you could say it had a "major overhaul."  I'm not sure what the savings would be, but I think that's technically true (if not ideal).

What's a bottom overhaul (all the goodies inside the crankcase) usually run for a J?  Maybe it's better to just do the whole thing, in such a scenario?

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: 16LPilot

What's a bottom overhaul (all the goodies inside the crankcase) usually run for a J?  Maybe it's better to just do the whole thing, in such a scenario?

[Gone]

I had mine done this year too.  28 AMUs.  Four years after I bought C-FSWR.  It was 350 hours to TBO when I bought it and I thought I might be able to make it go beyond TBO.  In Canada, I am told that is called "on condition" that it is showing no signs of needing an overhaul.

It showed the appropriate signs at 1951 hours - so I got it done.

I got three and a half really good years out of the previous engine and the investment I made is for the next 20 years.  If I were to buy an aircraft at TBO I would only ask myself who is paying for the previous use of the engine. If you think it was paid for by the previous owner - then no discount.  If you think you are the one paying for it (in the cost of the overhaul) get them to drop the price by 25 AMUs and you can put it through the overhaul.  Anything you pay over the 25K is on your nickel.

Just my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

[lahso]

Mine was done in March 2009 ($23k).

[hansel]

Any recommendations for a reputable shop on the west coast? I have about 400 hrs till TBO on my J. It's time to seriously think about the inevitable.

[FlyingAggie]

Quote: Buster1

I've seen a little of the same in my search for the best 252 I can afford.  For me, I plan on financing a large chunk of the final purchase.  I guess if I found the right plane, with a 'worn' engine for $25k less than the average, I would buy it and have it immediately overhauled while financing the additional $25k into the overall figure.  Yeah, it's more financing, but it would be the right plane for me with a 'new' engine at the right price.  It's a little more headache, but at least you have a starting point for the engine, vs hoping for the best on one with 800 hrs to go to TBO.

[Buster1]

Alan, thanks for the info, I guess I need to budget more for that one huh?  I'm guessing that that's a full motor and turbo o'haul?

[LFOD]

Wow, I had no idea that was so expensive to overhaul....

[skyking]

I dont know if this helps all you guys with the turbo's etc.

But my old M20A was 40 grand for engine, prop, spinner, hub. Etc.

From the firewall forward is all new within the last year now.

 

russ

[Buster1]

I also know if you give them your old engine, and it's not totally trashed, but near or over TBO, you can get some credit.  And as I'm reading, a lot of the "grunt" work can be done yourself (buying hoses, baffles, parts etc) and then you can do a little of the work youself if your shop allows.  This can save you a few grand.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: LFOD

Wow, I had no idea that was so expensive to overhaul....

[flyby201]

I had an overhaul done on my M20J recently.  It was done by Robert Smith at Mena Aircraft Engines (widely recognized as a "top shop").  Cost with new cylinders was $23 to 24K and I'm VERY pleased with it.

[The-sky-captain]

Steve- Glad you joined the forum, it's good to have another local guy (AR) on here. I have heard nothing but good about the Mena shop and plan on having my OH done there when the time comes. Fly safe.

[Greg Ellis]

I am 50 hours into an overhauled engine from Western Skyways.  The overhaul after all was said and done was closer to $30,000 for me due to circumstances of where the overhaul was done.  I had to land in Clovis, NM after a loss of oil pressure and high CHT's.  Clovis is not where you want to be if you need an engine overhaul.

Western Skyways did a great job of the engine though and after my regular A&P fixed the issues from the shop that did the engine swap, the plane is doing great.  So budget wisely for any overruns because there definitely will be.

Western Skyways charges an initial $5000.00 deposit to start the engine building.  You get that back if you return them a usuable core.  The final rate for the engine (O-360-A1D) was $20,000.  The rest was in labor.  This was back in June.

It took roughly 7 weeks to get the engine because of a back order for the pistons they were using.  Fuel system and Mags and wiring harnesses were all new.