Best Airplane For my Mission?

[exM20K]

7 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

FWIW if you have (or switch to) a glass panel, the backup alternator with the FIKI setup  is additional peace of mind. Probably even if you don't

As is the absence of a vacuum system.

Vacuum pump failures in IMC are significantly more serious than alternator failures.

-dan

[wombat]

I think maybe it depends more on what instruments you'll have fail if a power generation/transmission system like vacuum or electrical fails.

 

If my vacuum system fails in IMC it's not a big deal....   I'll lose my speed brakes.

I don't have a second alternator, if my alternator fails I'm operating on battery (Ship battery plus G5 independent battery) only for avionics so I've got a very limited time to get to VMC.

Would I rather have electric speed brakes and a second alternator?  Yup!     Anyone want to fund it for me?   

[Jetpilot86]

On 1/1/2025 at 11:02 AM, Danny said:

Thanks so much for the thoughtful responses. 
 

My philosophy is that FIKI on a straight-wing, no bleed air airplane is that it’s a tool to fly on days where the forecast and PIREPS would ground a non-TKS airplane, but the actual conditions would allow safe operations. I spent a year of my life flying 208Bs. It was certified, but inflight icing was best treated as an emergency. Climb, descend or turn around, but never just sit there allowing it to accrete. 
 

My guess is the M20 wing/airframe allows a little more wriggle room than the ‘van. 
 

But it’s something I’d tread into very carefully. 

I’ve done some “experimentation” with my clean wing Bravo. Clouds at freezing temperatures are simply to be avoided. One could lose 2kts/min in light accumulations. My buddies who flew 208’s seemed to deal with ice much better than a non-FIKI Mooney. 

I flew the TKS system on Twin Commanders, Part 135, and unless a pump quits or you run out of fluid, it’s an amazing system. 

[GeeBee]

Yep, I have flown thousands in bleed air, I have flown thousands in boots, I have a thousand flown in TKS. My first TKS airplane was my Mooney and I found it amazing in its performance. Given the choice between boots and TKS I'll take TKS every time. 

[exM20K]

12 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Yep, I have flown thousands in bleed air, I have flown thousands in boots, I have a thousand flown in TKS. My first TKS airplane was my Mooney and I found it amazing in its performance. Given the choice between boots and TKS I'll take TKS every time. 

Ditto. All my time is boots or TKS. Not only does the TKS work better, it does not rely on a vacuum pump to operate, and I think getting rid of failure-prone vacuum pumps is one of the great safety advances in GA over the last 2 decades.

Nothing man-made is perfect, of course.  I’ve had two TKS failures over more than 25 years. The first was a connection in the tail that let go, and the second was, I believe, frozen water in the panel at the wing root that prevented the panels from wetting out. I now run the system up to pressure on the ground before a forecast icing flight.

and, of course, always have an out.

-dan

[Ethan]

Danny,

I am based in the Portland area at KHIO. I have owned my Mooney M20K (231) for more than 10 years. I don't have any deice equipment except for a hot prop and a heated Pitot tube yet I fly all year long. There have been days I don't go - mostly because of ice - but most days, I find are doable because the turbo opens up a huge altitude envelope.

Heading south from Portland, the bad weather often clears out around Medford or Redding. Sometimes, it doesn't but mostly it does. The Columbia River Gorge is always tricky because it makes its own weather. When things look doable in the Willamette Valley, the gorge might have an icing surprise for you.  

As Richard Collins used to profess when writing about his fully weatherized P210 in Flying, he didn't do any more trips in his deiced bird than he would have done in one without it. I think that is the best philosophy. Plan wisely, fly most day, but stay home the days where you can't do it safely.

As for the Mooney 231. The weak spot is the single alternator. On an IFR bird, two alternators are almost a requirement. I have lost my alternator three times so far and it's no fun when all your equipment is electric. The strong point of the 231s is their relatively higher useful load than some of the other long-body models and the 252. Mine is 1000 pounds even. Not great, but okay for most trips with two people.

I have been very happy with my airplane, but I have only owned one airplane. If I had to do it again, I might get a 252 because most came with two alternators and the most advanced installation of the TSIO-360. I might also get a Cessna T182RG because they are really nice and they carry more, are bigger inside, and easier for passengers to get in and out of. Everything I have heard about the 252 makes me think it is the best of the models. Again, the problem with the 252 is the paltry useful load. If you put deicing equipment in it, the useful load just gets worse. The Encore is a newer version of the 252 with a higher useful load and is really sweet and worth getting if you can afford one.

Happily, I got a field approval for a second alternator and installed it last year. I really like knowing if my big finicky alternator kicks the bucket - or its weird elastomer bonded drive gear shraps - that I won't lose my instruments.

Good Luck, Mooneys are excellent airplanes. I wish people could still buy new ones.

[Pinecone]

12 hours ago, Ethan said:

Everything I have heard about the 252 makes me think it is the best of the models. Again, the problem with the 252 is the paltry useful load. If you put deicing equipment in it, the useful load just gets worse. The Encore is a newer version of the 252 with a higher useful load and is really sweet and worth getting if you can afford one.

FYI, you can convert a 252 to Encore specs.  And get the GW increase.  My 252 has 1060 useful load.

You change engine from -MB to -SB.  This consists of changing from 36"/2700 RPM to 39"/2600.  I am not sure is any parts need to be changed or just adjusted.  for my airplane they replaced the engine with Factory Reman -SB.

You change the brakes to the duel puck brakes of the long bodies.

You replace the balance weight on the control surfaces.

Paperwork and you are done.  When I was looking to buy a 252, the estimate was about $15,000 for the conversion

[geoffb]

On 12/31/2024 at 6:55 PM, Danny said:

Hello all, I'm based in SW Washington state near PDX. I'll be needing a year round platform that does SoCal with IFR reserves over western state MEAs. (720NM) I'd also be doing the occasional trip to YVR, PSP, GTF, GCN, and the bay area. Just me and the wife.

I've been educating myself about the differences between the newer models and was wondering what the hive wisdom is on the sweet spot between the more efficient but slower K-models and something like a 305-horse Rocket.

I'm guessing TKS is a must for year round flying. Is it known icing or just for inadvertent encounters?

I'm all ears. Thanks!

We're in Corvallis with a 262 conversion, dual 75 amp alternators, TKS.  Without Monroy tanks Palm Springs from PDX non stop will be tight.  Probably a 5 hour flight in the high teens in mine.  I cruise at 65% ROP.  Haven't managed to get mine to run smooth while lean.  We make that trip at least once a year and up high down the east side will pencil out, but there are no small number of days when running down the east side of the sierras will be unpleasant.   We usually stick to the valley to Palmdale and then cut east.  Costs some time but usually a better ride with better outs.

We trek to Santa Barbara a few times a year, that would be no problem with standard tanks non-stop.

Most of my flying is for work around the northwest.  The airplane has proven to be truly capable.

Rockets are faster, but every time I sit down and compare the travel times, you burn more gas to save a few minutes.  Even PSP from CVO the extra 25 knots only yields a half-hour saved.