Parking without Tie Downs

[joepilotmooney]

I am in a spot in Sarasota FLA (SRQ) that will leave my Mooney parked with only chocks for maybe a year. This scares me. I am wondering if the people at the FBO here will let me put at least a few cement blocks on the ground with eyelets that I could use. If not, I am again, scared to do this.  How scared would you guys be?

[alextstone]

I think it's reasonable for you to be concerned.  Also, your insurance company might push back if there was a claim for wind damage of normal predictions are not taken.  It sounds like this is a grassy area from the way you described putting cement blocks in, correct?

 

Alex

 

Bravo N1084U

[toto]

21 minutes ago, joepilotmooney said:

I am in a spot in Sarasota FLA (SRQ) that will leave my Mooney parked with only chocks for maybe a year. This scares me. I am wondering if the people at the FBO here will let me put at least a few cement blocks on the ground with eyelets that I could use. If not, I am again, scared to do this.  How scared would you guys be?

Is there soft ground that you could put stakes in? There are some temporary tie down options like this:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/flyties.php
 

I don’t think I would want to park my plane outside for a year with no tie downs. Make sure your insurance is paid up and hull value selected appropriately. 

[Danb]

SQR being a busy jet and commercial flight airport I’d worry about jet blast in addition to high winds. Just after I bought my Bravo in 2006, I was at the Beaufort SC a Kingair blasted his engine and ripped my door open bending the door etc, never right since. 

[LANCECASPER]

36 minutes ago, joepilotmooney said:

I am in a spot in Sarasota FLA (SRQ) that will leave my Mooney parked with only chocks for maybe a year. This scares me. I am wondering if the people at the FBO here will let me put at least a few cement blocks on the ground with eyelets that I could use. If not, I am again, scared to do this.  How scared would you guys be?

Check and see - if they will, that should help a lot.

[bigmo]

I think I’d look elsewhere honestly, even if it means a long drive. I think this would probably border on negligence on your part if it came to an insurance claim. A few days you could roll the dice. A year? There’s bound to be 5+ storms with winds in excess of 40 mph come through. You’ll be shocked how much pressure a light wind puts on tie downs.

A long time ago, I worked line service. After any storm of any kind we’d go check all the planes that were not hangared. Almost every time we found ropes that were broken. None of these were old or ratted. It’s one reason I use good quality tie downs vs ropes (with 1500 limits). 

[PeteMc]

Pick another Airport.  An extra 20 minute drive might be a bit of a pain, but much less than if a storm, jet wake or a helicopter tosses your plane around. 

 

[hubcap]

There are stakes that have augur-like threads that screw in the ground with an eye on top. They are a foot or so long. I kept my Piper Cherokee tied down with those for several years on a grass strip.

[Pinecone]

Actual tie down anchor tests.  One takeaway is that the system is only as good as the weakest link, which can be the soil itself.

 

 

 

 

 

https://abesaviation.com/pages/test-results

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/accessories/portable-tiedowns-claw-is-a-top-pick/

[N201MKTurbo]

If I was parked on the dirt for a year, I would come out on a Sunday when the city folks are not there and dig down a couple of feet and bury some concrete blocks or steel bars with chains and then fill the holes back in and pack the dirt down.

[joepilotmooney]

7 hours ago, hubcap said:

There are stakes that have augur-like threads that screw in the ground with an eye on top. They are a foot or so long. I kept my Piper Cherokee tied down with those for several years on a grass strip.

Thanks yah I was thinking about that - I will see if the FBO can put me somewhere other than asphalt or cement.

[Yetti]

concrete blocks weigh how much?   Your plane can lift how much?    Also a useful question when selecting tie ropes or straps.

[N201MKTurbo]

I had my old Mooney tied down on the ramp at Tucson once. A T storm came through and it unbent the chain hooks and the plane got loose. I didn’t see any of this, but the guys from the FBO said it was crazy it went skittering across the ramp and was stopped by a King Air about 200 feet away. 
 

Remarkably the only damage was a small dent on one elevator trailing edge and a paint scrape on the King Air’s prop. Me and the King Air’s pilot looked at our planes, shook hands and went on our way.

So, the plane would have drug those concrete blocks like they weren’t even there.

[Fly Boomer]

6 hours ago, joepilotmooney said:

Thanks yah I was thinking about that - I will see if the FBO can put me somewhere other than asphalt or cement.

If you can get one on concrete, a hammer drill with a long bit and a concrete anchor will be easier than digging, and probably stronger.  I would bet the concrete ramps are at least 6 inches thick.

[1980Mooney]

8 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

If you can get one on concrete, a hammer drill with a long bit and a concrete anchor will be easier than digging, and probably stronger.  I would bet the concrete ramps are at least 6 inches thick.

Sounds like a good way to get immediately evicted plus pay damages. It’s not his concrete apron to tear up. 

[Fly Boomer]

1 minute ago, 1980Mooney said:

Sounds like a good way to get immediately evicted plus pay damages. It’s not his concrete apron to tear up. 

But you think they would be okay digging holes two feet deep, and putting in concrete blocks?

[Pinecone]

BIG difference between hammer drilling concrete (permanent change) and digging a hole in dirt.

[PT20J]

If faced with this I would get steel plates and have tie down rings welded in the center and then stack concrete blocks on it like the Alpha Aviation portable tail weight (but without the post). 4x8x16" blocks are 30 lb each. So, the one in the picture (including the weight of the steel) is about 500#. 

[1980Mooney]

 

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

But you think they would be okay digging holes two feet deep, and putting in concrete blocks?

Not at all.  Not sure why you think I would.  These suggestions are laughable. 

I just looked at this post again. I see there are 2 FBO's at KSRQ - Both Atlantic.  Atlantic is owned by KRR since 2021.   https://flysrq.com/fbos

I seriously doubt that the lawyers and insurance company for Atlantic (KKR) and the airport are going to let the OP start altering their concrete parking aprons in any way.  And don't think Atlantic is going to let anyone stack concrete blocks up on their ramp for a year.

Parking a plane long term for maybe more than a year with only wheel chocks sounds like a formula for disaster. As mentioned, all it takes is a thunderstorm with associated quick gust of winds.  And @joepilotmooney should be worried most about the risk of damage that his plane does to others.  

 

Edited 9 hours ago by 1980Mooney

[takair]

I’m surprised the FBO does not consider this a huge liability. If they are renting you space to “store” a plane, I would think it should have some level of standards for aircraft safe storage. Not just for the sake of your plane but all of the others, hangars and people.  

[Utah20Gflyer]

9 hours ago, Yetti said:

concrete blocks weigh how much?   Your plane can lift how much?    Also a useful question when selecting tie ropes or straps.

This was my thought.  If your plane can lift 1000 lbs with 60mph of wind under the wings under normal operation I don’t see 50 or 100 lbs doing much if the wind starts blowing hard.  

[Aerodon]

20 minutes ago, takair said:

I’m surprised the FBO does not consider this a huge liability. If they are renting you space to “store” a plane, I would think it should have some level of standards for aircraft safe storage. Not just for the sake of your plane but all of the others, hangars and people.  

I am a landlord and have some tiedowns.  We had a bit of a windstorm and I was notified that a C150 had blown over.  Fire trucks came out and contained the fuel leak.  I was concerned because they were my tiedown blocks.  Fortunately I managed to get photographic evidence that the tail was not tied to the block provided.  Once the tail got going, the other blocks had no chance.  

Lesson was not to lease spots without proper tiedowns, get a lease that limits my liability, drill holes and cement the tiedowns in etc.  In general, blocks are not enough, if the wind is from the front, the wings can produce a lot of lift.  If the wind is from the rear, once the tail gets going....

 

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

[1980Mooney]

14 minutes ago, takair said:

I’m surprised the FBO does not consider this a huge liability. If they are renting you space to “store” a plane, I would think it should have some level of standards for aircraft safe storage. Not just for the sake of your plane but all of the others, hangars and people.  

Exactly.  I use Atlantic when I visit Albuquerque - the Sunport (KABQ).  I feel like the poor cousin there.  They like to cater to those with real money that have turbines and a booming Medivac business.  They get me off the ramp as quick as they can in order to make room for the "real customers".  They tie me down far from the FBO and they don't like to pull my plane up for departure.  I can access my plane but it requires their permission each time - there is absolutely no way I would be hauling concrete blocks out on the apron or drilling into the concrete with a hammer drill.....  They would be hauling me out.  

[Richie the C]

Leaving a Mooney tied down outside for a year is insane. You must not like your plane.

[N201MKTurbo]

Mooneys are tough airplanes, they can take it. 
 

Some people have to park their cars in the driveway instead of the garage. Life is tough all over.