Aerocruz 100 for Mooney Ranger

[Lionudakis]

On 12/24/2024 at 10:06 PM, cliffy said:

Having looked at the Trio install drawings for a Mooney I think the AC 100 is easier to install

Also the Trio uses 3 servos with cable bridles for control connections unlike the AC 100 with 

solid push pull rods on 2 servos. The Trio uses a tray across the width of the tail cone aft of the radio access

hole on the left side of the fuselage with 2 servos mounted side by side to connect to the Mooney 

push/pull rods with clamp on cable bridles. I guess I'm just not a fan of cable bridles but they have 

been used on many A/P installations in the past.

Trio or Dynon? Trio just got going on the Mooney IIRC.   A recently approved ProPilot is in transit for my wife and sons Cessna 150

[cliffy]

My mistake in saying "Trio" I was referring to the Dynon autopilot with bridles for the pitch and yaw. The roll servo uses a push/pull rod.

I guess because I had just been researching the Trio one the name stuck in my head. 

The TT/BK Aero 100  uses only 2 servos (pitch and roll) both with push/pull rods.

In addition so far only the J/Ks are approved for the Dynon AND another limitation on installation is that some Js have tapered rod ends on the rudder push pulls and only the ones with flat/square ends are covered by the STC   (page 2 below)

https://www.dynoncertified.com/downloads/documentation/mooney/104368-000_RevB_AP_Install_Manual_Mooney_M20J_M20K.pdf

[cliffy]

On 12/27/2024 at 6:20 AM, 65MooneyPilot said:

Should I remove my PC system for an Aerocruise 100 AP. 

If you want an autopilot and not just a wing leveler then yes

[cliffy]

On 12/25/2024 at 4:47 AM, 65MooneyPilot said:

Awesome report, did you happen to take any pictures of the install? I am thinking about installing one and as we know a picture is worth a thousand words. 

 

[EricJ]

53 minutes ago, cliffy said:

 

In my J model there's a factory bracket for the pitch servo in the tail that's very straightforward and uses a hole in one of the swing arms that is specifically for connecting an autopilot.   I wish they'd have used that instead, but this works, too.

[47U]

@cliffy

Thank you for posting these pictures.

Did you fabricate this angle (circled in blue) to support the servo tray aft mount bracket, or was it in the kit?  Were the servo tray forward and aft mount brackets you installed in your initial kit order, or did Duncan send them to you as a modification after your kit was delivered?  Your servo mount tray didn’t have to be shortened?  

My servo tray forward and aft mount brackets are bent at 90 degrees, and my servo tray is too long… it’s for a mid-body.   Per a draft print Duncan sent me, the servo tray needs to be shortened and the forward and aft mount bracket’s angle changed so the servo tray is installed at an angle slightly off from horizontal… which the reason appears to be to cleanly install the aft servo tray mount bracket through the step support structure on the aft side of the bulkhead.  Your installation appears to avoid the structural variances between models in the aft bulkhead.    

I think I need to contact Duncan… this is progress.

[cliffy]

In the Duncan drawings there are two different ways to mount the tray. I used the long body one with the upper bracket hung from the floor of the baggage compartment. I just shortened the tray , remounted the supplied brackets (angle reset to 105 degrees to match the bulkhead angle) and used all the supplied hardware. I did make the gray angle bracket on the floor of the baggage compartment to mimic the stiffener that is on the long bodies but not on the short bodies. 

So the mounting is exactly as it is on the long bodies just with a shorter tray. 

I did it this way to avoid problems with using the bulkhead with the step issues.

I notched the tray flanges to clear the flap rod as allowed on the drawings. 

The gray angle piece is .032 2024 with a radiused bend

[hammdo]

I’ve ordered mine from Duncan today. Should know more after the holiday….

-Don

[cliffy]

Forgot to add-   I shortened the threaded portion of the link rod to accommodate the closer mounting of the servo to the

connection point. This HAS to be done carefully and by shortening BOTH ends so as to keep the required 12 threads engagement

required by the STC as the hole does not go all the way through the threaded link rod. 

Also be aware that on the early short bodies (up through 68)  have an unbalanced throw of the elevators (10 down and 24 up) instead of the balanced 22 each way for  69 and on so for the early ones the at rest setting for the arm on the servo will be off set from equal throw between the hard stops on the servo to accommodate this anomaly  This is done with the length of the treaded link rod. I strongly suggest that a practice threaded rod be made (utilizing the actual rod ends) to play with this  adjustment before the actual part is cut to size. Its a trial and error effort. 

You will need to check and recheck that the MAIN elevator stops hit first BEFORE the hard stops on the servo touch  It is a close fit but can be done   THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS INSTALLATION

I would highly recommend that a check of the proper elevator throws on the airplane be done according to the maintenance manual BEFORE the pitch servo is installed.  This can only be done by jacking the airplane to level and using travel boards.

This step is a glaring omission on the STC paper work

This will entail having the proper tools and understanding of how to do this job to check this item off the list. 

I would definitely NOT install the pitch servo without making sure the elevators are actually moving the correct distances up and down

per serial number 

I have seen too many airplane out of rig to not do this important step.  Only the full elevator rigging procedure should be done

No short cuts. 

[M20E for me]

On 12/15/2024 at 1:35 PM, AJ88V said:

Anybody know what the status of the Trio Pro Pilot is?  

Don't know why they STC'd the Grumman first, but you can sign up with your interest here.  https://www.thestcgroupllc.com/pages/stc-autopilot-interest-list

Heck, I'll loan them my plane if it would get an AP approved.

I just got an email form them and they think they will have the STC for the short bodies by Oshkosh this year.  I hope they do but it’s the FAA…

[hammdo]

@cliffy, do you have a pic of the shorted rod link?

-Don

[cliffy]

No but its just an internal threaded rod between the load sensor and the other Heim joint end,

Nothing special except each end thread depth is different so you can't just chop off equal amounts 

off of each end. You have to measure it carefully to preserve the 12 threads engagement on each end.

The supplied rod is just long enough to be able to do this between the bottom ends of the drilled holes.

That's why I said to make a dummy rod and try it it too get the correct length before cutting the 

real supplied rod. This is probably the most difficult part of the install as I noted above as it determines

the throw of the servo arm between the stops. Too short it hits one side and too long it hits the other.

Just right and it clears the servo stops yet hits the airplane hard stops as it should. Even on the J/K install

this rod has to be adjusted (just not shortened) to allow the correct length to be found. The shortened rod 

on the short bodies is just a different starting point for the same adjustment. 

[hammdo]

Duncan is shipping my kit out today!

For those curious, I purchased the flat pack. The price included a 3% cc fee, $200 STC fee, and sales tax so the total was $7926.77 (~$22 for shipping included). The Garmin GFC500 was priced at $11930.50 ( not including shipping as it depends where it is shipped from) for a 2 axis kit for comparison…

The installation price is the same for both per my avionics shop - currently for my plane at around $4500.00

Garmin: $16430.50 installed

NOTE: I already have G5 and GNC 355 so that cost is not included. The G5 adds about $4K to $5k more for a single G5.

AeroCruze: $12426.77 installed. G5 is optional but I would want it too…

Overall, ~$4000 difference

-Don
 

 

[AJ88V]

Gonna ask a dumb question here, but.....

Does the AeroCruze 100 include an internal inertial (micromechanical gyro) package for stability control?

And does the Garmin GFC500 rely on on external inertial package? (say, provided by a G5?)

[hammdo]

The aerocruze should have a built-in one. GFC500 requires a G5

G5 provides a ‘heading and alt hold’ mode using the bugs when in External mode on the AeroCruze…

-Don

[cliffy]

Aerocruze is built in and doesn't need an external gyro  its built in but not mechanical

It does require a GPS navigator either WAAS or even a hand held GPS with serial data feed out. 

The Dynon HDX will drive the Aerocruze with the Dynon head controls OR you can just use the Aerocruze knobs 

if you want. 

[Hank]

13 hours ago, cliffy said:

The Dynon HDX will drive the Aerocruze with the Dynon head controls OR you can just use the Aerocruze knobs 

if you want. 

So there is still hope to put in a SkyView panel, and add the Aerocruz as a Brittain replacement? Keep the PC system, or does it go?

[cliffy]

Use the Dynon HDX  (7" or 10")  Use the Aerocruze for the autopilot and if you need IFR capability  (I don;t)

add in a WAAS GPS navigator to feed the system (you might already have a compatible one installed). 

I have almost 2 complete Brittian systems in my hangar (none in the airplane, not needed). 

I'll probably have a complete flight report next week but the first 2 check flights show good right now.

[hammdo]

Mine was delivered today! Took just 2 days fedex from Duncan…

-Don

[cliffy]

Final test flight today- All went perfect!

Dynon controls the A/P IF you want   Aerocruze 100 control head can do the same.

Holds altitude solid in smooth air and  within 20-30 feet in all turns large and small in light turbulence

A/P will follow any flight plan in the Dynon (direct to or with waypoints)

Dynon will control lateral direction via the magenta line ONLY! (CDI / HSI or "direct to")) It will not control it by the heading bug! 

Heading (in reality GPS track and not a true heading) you will need to revert to the A/P control head (a couple button pushes)

Dynon does a fine job of driving the A/P in the vertical mode. Climbs, descents, alt captures all work fine

Manual trim is necessary as you change airspeed, level off etc as it would without an A/P

The Trim indicator is very sensitive and you will learn to trim to extinguish the trim called for and then tap the wheel the way it wants you

to trim to get the indicator to extinguish BUT it will come back on if you sustain an up or down draft that stays a while. 

This has been reported on many websites.  You will just get used to trimming till the light goes out double check with tap on the wheel and then forget about until descent.  You will try a few times to see how far out the pitch trim is by holding the wheel and disconnecting with the wheel disconnect but you will see that the trim indicator is on when very little pressure is on the wheel. 

ALWAYS HOLD THE WHEEL IF YOU USE THE CONTROL WHEEL DISCONNECT SWITCH just in case it is way out of trim. 

This goes for any airplane with an autopilot. 

A couple of items to bear in mind-

When setting up the serial out ports from the Dynon to feed the Aerocruze  will need 2 unused serial port OUTS  (the Ins can be OFF)

One goes to the A/C TT Serial RS 232 in pin and the other goes to pin #18 "Skview" feed.

Each has a different serial "sentence" that it needs to feed the A/P  Its in the install manual and the 'Interface " manual

In particular the feed to pin #18 on the A/P  HAS to be "Dynon ADAHRS +System"

When programming the ports on the Dynon you will NOT see the sentence on the first screen list- you MUST use the right big knob to track down to the next page to find it   Below is just for pin 18 setup   (The other pin has a different serial sentence to input)

Interface Setup Interface with the Dynon SkyView is relatively simple. It requires an additional RS-232 serial connection to the autopilot from the Dynon D1000 or D700. Each SkyView screen contains five (5) serial ports. This interface will require an unused serial port to be available on the SkyView display. Which serial port is used doesn’t matter. The settings required for the serial port are shown below. 1) Set output device to DYNON ADAHRS + SYSTEM    2) Set In /Out Baud Rate to 9600 3) Input device can be set to OFF as this is unused for this interface 4) Autopilot baud rate MUST be set to 9600 as well. NOTE: This will also affect the primary serial input of the autopilot, which is connected to the GPS. If using a portable GPS, be sure to reset the GPS output baud rate to be 9600 as well.

Pay attention to the wiring diagram as far as reversing the elevator servo wires. It shows how to do it in the install manual DO IT or else you will be in reverse sensing for pitch. 

If you are a computer nerd this installation will be easy if you are like me it will take some effort decipher the computer geek directions. 

Once installed and working it seems to work as good as any small airplane A/P with its own limitations. 

[Florian Guthardt]

Hi Cliffy - actually the Aerocruze WILL follow the Dynon heading bug - you just have to DE-select  any Source like Skyview or external GPS on the HSI then it will follow selected heading in skyview mode! Works pretty good on ours!

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, Florian Guthardt said:

Hi Cliffy - actually the Aerocruze WILL follow the Dynon heading bug - you just have to DE-select  any Source like Skyview or external GPS on the HSI then it will follow selected heading in skyview mode! Works pretty good on ours!

@cliffy

[cliffy]

OK interesting   In my Duncan paperwork it aid it would never follow the heading bug on the HDX  - it would only 

follow track the HSI    which mine does very well except for a slight bracketing of the course in smooth air. Very slight 

but still a little left/right action all the time. 

As far as the DE-select-  what exactly are you referring to? 

If a source is deselected then will it loose the ability to track a flight plan input?  Mine does that well.

Mine right now will follow a GPS course input on the 100 control head (not in Skyview mode) or the HDX 

flight plan route (via the HSI as I under stand it) in Skyview mode. 

It would be "nice" to have both via Skyview but I'm hazy on how you do it

@Florian Guthardt

[Florian Guthardt]

8300-086-Vizion-380-385-Series-Installation-Manual.pdf

 

 

See from Page 25 of attached Experimental install manual (the description is not in the vcertified version but works the same):

SkyView CDI SRC determines lateral actions of autopilot.
a. No selection will have the autopilot follow the heading bug of the
SkyView. (Fig 2)
b. Selecting SKYVIEW or the external device (EXAMPLE: GNS430) will
follow the flight plan programmed either internally or on the external
device. (Fig 3)
c. Selecting LOC/VOR/ILS will have the autopilot follow the heading bug

Note: Upon entering the SkyView mode, the Vizion will automatically grab the
current heading bug, altitude bug, and vertical speed bug being output by the
SkyView. If the SkyView is showing a flight plan on the CDI, the Vizion will enter GPS
mode.

8300-086-Vizion-380-385-Series-Installation-Manual.pdf

[cliffy]

Just got back so I'll be looking at this

THANKS!

@Florian Guthardt