Cigarette Lighter socket as USB power source

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, hazek said:

I'd like to use Starlink in my Bravo. I have the cigar lighter socket but how do I know it can support the power required for Starlink?

You won't know for sure until you try it, but the people over on Beechtalk use these and have success with them:

https://www.amazon.com/Starlink-Cigarette-Dissipation-Waterproof-Protections/dp/B0DMNPGRZN/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2M89JT7R8C1RQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4FFoQB6iP0a2VqCcJVbDTtVbry2BNhi5wnBRZ_xLqgJU9dw2PvUc1lwi1LSKI9c1OpsZqCAs5W0gU4caB_SxdB2ZwdEBBibNgdaTbMPLwI-QjmMNFSY1ekqt5UxJS9XoXukn0ACD1kCWTeGBMKA3JgB8wsmkPle32kYwCIuIwsnJ5Auo2ZrC73menScqOYkGz444kfFbF4upjp3VofZmF-mFBwr4-u6KMDKxcoTW6aM.1hxfH60mruFMLFWUC2C8qRxXvJq467LwRao_xQrEhfQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=starlink%2Bcigarette%2Blighter%2Badapter&qid=1758458470&sprefix=STARLINK%2BCIG%2Caps%2C363&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

[hazek]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

You won't know for sure until you try it

Surely there's a way to know in advance?

[Jerry 5TJ]

The Starlink mini draws about 60 watts.  If you’re comfortable pulling 5+ amps (12 volt system assumed) through the cigarette lighter socket and the socket’s CB is rated for 10 amps, it should work.  
If you want to test first, wire a 2 ohm 100 watt resistor to a cigarette lighter plug and see.  As your Bravo is a 24 volt airplane, use an 8 ohm resistor.  
As for me, I’d wire in a USB port rated for the power level and delete that lighter socket.  

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, hazek said:

Surely there's a way to know in advance?

As an aded bonus, you can test your CB!  I tested my G5 in my F… circuit breaker worked as advertised!  I ended up using a different power source.

[LANCECASPER]

21 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

You won't know for sure until you try it, but the people over on Beechtalk use these and have success with them:

https://www.amazon.com/Starlink-Cigarette-Dissipation-Waterproof-Protections/dp/B0DMNPGRZN/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2M89JT7R8C1RQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4FFoQB6iP0a2VqCcJVbDTtVbry2BNhi5wnBRZ_xLqgJU9dw2PvUc1lwi1LSKI9c1OpsZqCAs5W0gU4caB_SxdB2ZwdEBBibNgdaTbMPLwI-QjmMNFSY1ekqt5UxJS9XoXukn0ACD1kCWTeGBMKA3JgB8wsmkPle32kYwCIuIwsnJ5Auo2ZrC73menScqOYkGz444kfFbF4upjp3VofZmF-mFBwr4-u6KMDKxcoTW6aM.1hxfH60mruFMLFWUC2C8qRxXvJq467LwRao_xQrEhfQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=starlink%2Bcigarette%2Blighter%2Badapter&qid=1758458470&sprefix=STARLINK%2BCIG%2Caps%2C363&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

 

19 hours ago, hazek said:

Surely there's a way to know in advance?

 

Not really, for sure. That's a little like demanding that I tell you exactly what the weather will be tomorrow morning at 8:00 a.m. local time. I can give you a good probability, but there are too many variables to know for sure.

How would someone know for sure, with absolute certainty,  that what is in their individual airplane would work with the device unless they actually try it? Is your M20M an early serial number that had a 24v lighter socket or a later one that had it stepped down to 12v? Or has it been modified since it was built to another standard? Does your breaker still perform at the rated amperage or maybe not still after all of those years? Does heat play a factor, depending on where you place the Starlink, on how much amperage it will take, or does it "throttle down" if it gets too hot? And more variables I'm sure than what I can think of.

The device I mentioned has worked for others, but since it is sold by Amazon you can see if it works for you and if it doesn't, return it. That is the only way to know for sure, just like checking the weather tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. is the only way for sure to know what it will be.

[Shadrach]

On 10/7/2024 at 9:57 AM, PeterRus said:

I have something that looks like a standard cigarette lighter socket in the airplane and I was thinking that a USB-C power source is a better option for my purposes. I can see there are several options available that hopefully would fit in the space: remove the socket and replace with neat nice TSOd unit from the well-known company. List price is about $400 + avionics shop rate to install and wire + extra fuse in the panel. Let's call in an even $1k.

Another option is to buy a well-made USB-C adapter that fits in the cigarette light socket. Price is ~$15 for an USB-C that delivers about 20W per port -- should suffice for an iPad or iPhone. Simultaneously. 

The question: Are there any safety concerns with the $15 dollars of monies approach vs biting the $1k bullet? I  think the cigarette lighter does not a fuse for example. 

TIA.

 Just get a high capacity power bank like this. I run a Starlink mini and charge all devices on it simultaneously. I have a smaller power bank in my kneeboard pocket that plugs into my iPad  with a 6 inch cord.

[Shadrach]

9 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

The Starlink mini draws about 60 watts.  If you’re comfortable pulling 5+ amps (12 volt system assumed) through the cigarette lighter socket and the socket’s CB is rated for 10 amps, it should work.  
If you want to test first, wire a 2 ohm 100 watt resistor to a cigarette lighter plug and see.  As your Bravo is a 24 volt airplane, use an 8 ohm resistor.  
As for me, I’d wire in a USB port rated for the power level and delete that lighter socket.  

Starlink Mini requires a minimum of a 60W power source but actual draw is more like 30W-40W while in use and quite a bit less when idle.

[hazek]

7 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Just get a high capacity power bank like this.

I would rather avoid even more fire hazards in my plane.

[ArtVandelay]

I put a Garmin USB in the right side of the panel for passengers when I redid my panel. But I didn’t fancy loose wires running around for my yoke-mounted iPad so had a True Blue aircraft charger mounted behind the panel and ran a USB cable below the yoke shaft where it is out of the way.

I put in a second lighter socket on left side, so only a short 1’ cable is needed. This is also far away from the radio, the right one is right next to my radio stack. No interference issues. My PS radio also has a UCB-C power port as well.
I like the idea of sockets, in case USB-X becomes the new standard, or I want to use a non USB device (starlink, laptop, etc)

[Pinecone]

12 volts at 5 amps is 60 watts.  That is what is needed at start up.

If you plane has a 24 volt outlet, 5 amps is 120 watts.

[Shadrach]

5 hours ago, hazek said:

I would rather avoid even more fire hazards in my plane.

It’s approved by the FAA for commercial flights.
Are you currently carrying a fireproof battery bag in your airplane?  

To each their own I suppose…It never occurred to me that someone who would consider charging their phone/tablet with a plug-in cigarette lighter charger might find a high end power bank with a sophisticated battery management system to be the more risky option. 

I didn’t come up with this set up on my own. I have several colleagues who also fly regularly for work. This has become the go to set up for powering StarLink in flight as well as other devices.  I’m likely going to buy a second because I occasionally fly into locations that don’t have an FBO and therefore don’t have power or Wi-Fi readily available.  My flight bag is completely self-contained power and broadband solution. If I add a second power bank, I’ll I have roughly enough power for full day worth of work and internet usage, plus excess to keep handheld devices topped up. High capacity, smart power banks and StarLink have been a game changer. 

[hazek]

3 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Are you currently carrying a fireproof battery bag in your airplane?  

I don't but my point was that I am already exposed to this risk and would rather not add another battery and with it even more of this risk. Thank you for the recommendation, but I would rather use the cigarette lighter socket if at all possible.

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

It’s approved by the FAA for commercial flights.
Are you currently carrying a fireproof battery bag in your airplane?  

I can see @hazek's safety concern.  It would be a pretty different situation in a Mooney vs being a Pax in a commercial airliner.  You can't exactly jump up out of your seat and stand in the isle as you get the fireproof bag.  And granted, the major manufacturers (UL Approved) batteries are much less likely to have a catastrophic runaway issues.  But it still can happen. 

I have a battery pack, but then I try to charge it, my flashlights, etc., to 80ish percent.  I don't have a real way of knowing, but my battery pack does have lights to show how charged it is, so I stop at 4 out of the 5 lights.  That last 20% is the hardest on the current type of batteries.  

 

[LANCECASPER]

17 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

I can see @hazek's safety concern.  It would be a pretty different situation in a Mooney vs being a Pax in a commercial airliner.  You can't exactly jump up out of your seat and stand in the isle as you get the fireproof bag.  And granted, the major manufacturers (UL Approved) batteries are much less likely to have a catastrophic runaway issues.  But it still can happen. 

I have a battery pack, but then I try to charge it, my flashlights, etc., to 80ish percent.  I don't have a real way of knowing, but my battery pack does have lights to show how charged it is, so I stop at 4 out of the 5 lights.  That last 20% is the hardest on the current type of batteries.  

 

I agree and do not carry a battery pack any more in a small airplane, especially since this Mooney burned up after a battery pack caught on fire after being dropped. Thank goodness it happened on the ground and not in the air.

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/386971

 

 

[PeteMc]

49 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

especially since this Mooney burned up after a battery pack caught on fire after being dropped.

WOW!  I had forgotten about that.  Just curious, do you remember what kind of battery pack?  Was it a major brand or just something you picked up online or in some store? 

ADDED NOTE FOR ALL...  It goes against traditional logic since you're dealing with a stored power cell.  But current best practice is to dump WATER on the battery.  Even better if it is in a fireproof bag and you can fill the bag with water. 

 

Edited September 22 by PeteMc

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/22/2025 at 12:31 PM, PeteMc said:

WOW!  I had forgotten about that.  Just curious, do you remember what kind of battery pack?  Was it a major brand or just something you picked up online or in some store?

I don't think that was mentioned in this thread:

 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

I can see @hazek's safety concern.  It would be a pretty different situation in a Mooney vs being a Pax in a commercial airliner.  You can't exactly jump up out of your seat and stand in the isle as you get the fireproof bag.  And granted, the major manufacturers (UL Approved) batteries are much less likely to have a catastrophic runaway issues.  But it still can happen. 

I have a battery pack, but then I try to charge it, my flashlights, etc., to 80ish percent.  I don't have a real way of knowing, but my battery pack does have lights to show how charged it is, so I stop at 4 out of the 5 lights.  That last 20% is the hardest on the current type of batteries.  

The battery management systems on most modern battery packs will already limit charge to 80%, or whatever their determined limit is, and manage the battery cycles.    When they show 100% (all lights, or whatever), they may really be at 80% to self-limit life management.   We use some industrial ruggedized tablets that do that, but they really only show 80% when charging and just stop there, so they never show 100% except in some unique charging conditions.

IIRC the battery in the Mooney that burned had been dropped on the pavement just before the flight.    If something like that happens, be very careful with the battery.

I use a pack that powers my Stratux ADS-B receiver.   I plug the Stratux into the battery and the battery into a USB charge port adapter in the back seat.    This keeps the Stratux on even between temporary ramp shutdowns, etc.    Seems to work well that way and I've never had any trouble with it.

[Shadrach]

10 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I agree and do not carry a battery pack any more in a small airplane, especially since this Mooney burned up after a battery pack caught on fire after being dropped. Thank goodness it happened on the ground and not in the air.

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/386971

 

That individual elected to start taxiing with a battery that had been dropped and damaged prior to start up.  I get that people may be ignorant of the risks involved in damaging a LiPO or Li-Ion battery, but this was not any more a battery problem than a powerplant failure that occurs after a prop strike/sudden stoppage that was never inspected.  It might work out, but if it doesn't, it's often real bad.

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/22/2025 at 5:52 PM, Shadrach said:

That individual elected to start taxing with a battery that had been dropped and damaged prior to start up.  I get that people may be ignorant of the risks involved in damaging a LiPO or Li-Ion battery, but this was not any more a battery problem than a powerplant failure that occurs after a prop strike/sudden stoppage that was never inspected.  It might work out, but if it doesn't, it's often real bad.

I understand your analogy, with the exception that there is no greater emergency than a cabin fire.

Since these batteries are portable the chances of them being dropped at some point in their life is a lot greater than zero. If the battery belongs to a passenger the danger goes up exponentially since they may not understand the potential for disaster and may not let you know that they dropped it at the last stop. Their "need" to watch a movie on the flight might outweigh the need to confess.

[N201MKTurbo]

The battery bag will contain the flames, but not the heat. It might be good to keep a wool blanket around as a fireproof insulator, just in case. The battery fire will generate a lot of somewhat toxic smoke too, so open all the vents and windows. Water will not put the fire out, but it will cool it off and slow the reaction. 
 

I have set quite a few Lion batteries on fire when I was developing a 100 battery charger for medical devices. Many on purpose, some were casualties of development.

[Pinecone]

20 hours ago, PeteMc said:

I have a battery pack, but then I try to charge it, my flashlights, etc., to 80ish percent.  I don't have a real way of knowing, but my battery pack does have lights to show how charged it is, so I stop at 4 out of the 5 lights.  That last 20% is the hardest on the current type of batteries.  

 

Many consumer products, like phones and laptops only charge to 80% (and discharge to 20%) to increase the life in cycles.

Maybe some cheaper battery packs charge to 100% to claim higher capacity.  But without seeing the actual cell data, it would not be possible to tell.

Cells fail when faced with too high of a discharge rate, overly discharged (too low of a cutoff), too high of a charge rate, or over charge level.  Or physical damage.

Again, assuming quality products.

[PeteMc]

On 9/22/2025 at 11:05 AM, EricJ said:

The battery management systems on most modern battery packs will already limit charge to 80%,

Actually no, that's not correct.  There are a few higher end ones (Anker I believe and some others) that will let you set the charge limit.  So maybe you've always had one of those brands that do limit the charging.  But the VAST majority of Power Banks or whatever you want to call them will charge to 100%.  No marketing dept is going to let a product go out to get feed back that "it all ways runs down" or "it barely has enough power to recharge my iPad" etc., etc.  And then if you have a cheaper made pack, you can be in for a surprise if it's been dropped a few times. 

Even your phone or tablet will charge to 100% unless it is a newer version and it is set to stop at 80%.  Most??? Many??? have them set to go to 100% so the users don't have to plug in as much.  

My little Nimble pack got good reviews, but there is no way to limit the charging.  But it does have 4 lights to tell how much charge it has, so I charge to 3 solid and maybe a little more to get a good charge, but not push it to the limit to repeatedly heat up the battery in that last 20% charge.  Besides dropping it , that's one of the best things you can do to prevent a shorter life span.  And to be honest, I've never used it.  I take it with me are SAR missions in case we're out for an extended time and my phone with our SARTopo starts to run down. 

 

[PeteMc]

6 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Many consumer products, like phones and laptops only charge to 80% (and discharge to 20%) to increase the life in cycles.

Maybe some cheaper battery packs charge to 100% to claim higher capacity.  But without seeing the actual cell data, it would not be possible to tell.

Cells fail when faced with too high of a discharge rate, overly discharged (too low of a cutoff), too high of a charge rate, or over charge level.  Or physical damage.

Again, assuming quality products.

Totally agree with the computers and higher end devices.  And yes, data would be the best thing to see on the smaller items like the battery packs.  But I actually reached out to a few Support people for various pack, including mine, and just played dumb to see what they did.  I wanted to be able to plug it in overnight and forget about it, but none of them said they limited the charging to 80%. 

From a few blurbs I've read, I think some manufacturers are doing it. This may have a lot to do with it just being promoted more by Apple especially saying that they had an 80% mode to extend the battery life.  My Android also has this feature.  But then even my not that old iPad Air with the latest iPadOS does not have this capability.   

 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

Actually no, that's not correct.  There are a few higher end ones (Anker I believe and some others) that will let you set the charge limit.  So maybe you've always had one of those brands that do limit the charging.  But the VAST majority of Power Banks or whatever you want to call them will charge to 100%.  No marketing dept is going to let a product go out to get feed back that "it all ways runs down" or "it barely has enough power to recharge my iPad" etc., etc.  And then if you have a cheaper made pack, you can be in for a surprise if it's been dropped a few times. 

Even your phone or tablet will charge to 100% unless it is a newer version and it is set to stop at 80%.  Most??? Many??? have them set to go to 100% so the users don't have to plug in as much.  

My little Nimble pack got good reviews, but there is no way to limit the charging.  But it does have 4 lights to tell how much charge it has, so I charge to 3 solid and maybe a little more to get a good charge, but not push it to the limit to repeatedly heat up the battery in that last 20% charge.  Besides dropping it , that's one of the best things you can do to prevent a shorter life span.  And to be honest, I've never used it.  I take it with me are SAR missions in case we're out for an extended time and my phone with our SARTopo starts to run down. 

It's not transparent to the user since the charging strategy is determined by the internal battery management system.    They're not all done the same depending on what the manufacturer is optimizing (charge availability, longevity, etc., etc.).   The "100%" charge level may just be what it allows the user to see, and what it's actually doing is something else.   There's no way to know without knowing the details of the strategy, which is usually internal to the specific battery.   As I mentioned, the behavior of certain tablets just between the consumer and ruggedized version was different, but in that case the visibility was passed to the user because of other concerns.  It's usually not visible.   

[Pinecone]

6 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Totally agree with the computers and higher end devices.  And yes, data would be the best thing to see on the smaller items like the battery packs.  But I actually reached out to a few Support people for various pack, including mine, and just played dumb to see what they did.  I wanted to be able to plug it in overnight and forget about it, but none of them said they limited the charging to 80%. 

From a few blurbs I've read, I think some manufacturers are doing it. This may have a lot to do with it just being promoted more by Apple especially saying that they had an 80% mode to extend the battery life.  My Android also has this feature.  But then even my not that old iPad Air with the latest iPadOS does not have this capability.   

 

Most of the support people have no idea.  Yes, they charge to 100% of that they consider the capacity.  The engineers set what is the max charge level for the device.

If you charge lipos to 100% and discharge to 10% or less, you will not get hundreds of cycles.  So instead of my power bank won't charge my iPad, you get complaints of this power bank only lasted 5 months and it is shot.