Skip the 'classic' glass engine monitor when going full glass? (...just dreaming)

[AJ88V]

Giving thought to a new panel now that '88V is returning to the air.

Most folks are recommending dual GI275s and a panel mounted GPS, but it seems that dual glass panels and a GPS won't cost that much more if one considers adding in a modern engine monitor system too.  Thinking a Garmin GPS and Dynon panels with the engine monitor kit.  Am I wildly off-base with this thinking?

Again, just dreaming.  I already have 4-cyl EGT (switchable) and 4-cyle CHT (scanning peak) installed, so no hurry, and I need to get some airborne hours in first to see that I'm not buying major engine work (from sitting).

Thanks!

[Paul Thomas]

8 minutes ago, AJ88V said:

Giving thought to a new panel now that '88V is returning to the air.

Most folks are recommending dual GI275s and a panel mounted GPS, but it seems that dual glass panels and a GPS won't cost that much more if one considers adding in a modern engine monitor system too.  Thinking a Garmin GPS and Dynon panels with the engine monitor kit.  Am I wildly off-base with this thinking?

Again, just dreaming.  I already have 4-cyl EGT (switchable) and 4-cyle CHT (scanning peak) installed, so no hurry, and I need to get some airborne hours in first to see that I'm not buying major engine work (from sitting).

Thanks!

Can you use your engine probes or will you have to use Garmin's/Dynon's?

[Max Clark]

The wall I crashed into is the integration between the instruments, navigator, and autopilot.

If you are ever considering replacing your autopilot (especially if going with Garmin GFC 500) then you'll quickly want to have Garmin G5/275 plus the Garmin navigator.

I've seen some incredibly clean panels with 3x 275 (with one dedicated for EIS). I can't tell you the cost differential but for me if feels like if you're going to go that far why not get the G3x?

I've also seen examples with the G3x and JPI 930 for EIS. I like the JPI display, and I can see the allure of having a dedicated unit.

For me personally I'll be replacing the entire panel and going all in on Garmin w/ the EIS integrated.

[KSMooniac]

IMO JPI has the best engine monitoring products, and if/when I update to a big PFD I will retain my EDM-900 and keep it on the pilot side panel.  YMMV of course.  The 900 can fit just about anywhere on a Mooney panel which is why I chose it.

[PT20J]

I really like the engine monitor in the G3X. It puts the power gauges near the attitude indicator for easy scan and all the flight and engine data is captured in one downloadable csv file per flight.  Alerts are also extremely configurable through the CAS system. 

[LANCECASPER]

IMO the GI275s are a great solution if you want to get rid of a King Attitude Indicator and HSI and don't want to cut a new panel and you want a much less invasive upgrade, taking less time. 

But if you're going to cut a new panel and tear everything apart either way, then the cost difference then isn't that much more to go with the larger G3X.

[kortopates]

IMHO the JPI EDM-900 is perfect in the mooney on the pilot side - although i do almost all my flying from right seat - this position keeps all of the engine parameters within my scan between PFD and Navigators. Off to right is out of my scan.

As much as i love Garmin products, as you can see from my panel pict, i am not a big fan of their EIS. Although it has the best integration possible and monitors most everything i find it lacking in too many ways which has kept me from adopting it.
i am also not a fan of the smaller circular displays including the GI-275 EIS.

But for those that don’t have the panel space, the small circular displays are far better than going without an engine monitor. Just be sure to learn how to use it and keep it in your scan. There is so much vital information there that it can save your engine and your butt when properly utilized.


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[Brandt]

On 9/20/2024 at 6:58 PM, kortopates said:

IMHO the JPI EDM-900 is perfect in the mooney on the pilot side - although i do almost all my flying from right seat - this position keeps all of the engine parameters within my scan between PFD and Navigators. Off to right is out of my scan.

As much as i love Garmin products, as you can see from my panel pict, i am not a big fan of their EIS. Although it has the best integration possible and monitors most everything i find it lacking in too many ways which has kept me from adopting it.
i am also not a fan of the smaller circular displays including the GI-275 EIS.

But for those that don’t have the panel space, the small circular displays are far better than going without an engine monitor. Just be sure to learn how to use it and keep it in your scan. There is so much vital information there that it can save your engine and your butt when properly utilized.


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A bit off topic but I agree with you re the G1000 as well.  It seems ludicrous to me that something that sophisticated doesn’t include the ability to set alarms for CHT’s, TIT’s, etc. I spend way too much time with my head down monitoring because I can’t use the electronics to alert me.  

[Pinecone]

On 9/21/2024 at 8:09 PM, Brandt said:

A bit off topic but I agree with you re the G1000 as well.  It seems ludicrous to me that something that sophisticated doesn’t include the ability to set alarms for CHT’s, TIT’s, etc. I spend way too much time with my head down monitoring because I can’t use the electronics to alert me.  

Strange.  The G3X EIS does alarms when things go into Yellow or Red ranges.

[Brandt]

7 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Strange.  The G3X EIS does alarms when things go into Yellow or Red ranges.

The G1000 may as well.  But I’d like to be able to set an alarm before it reaches that point.  

[Pinecone]

The red lines are set to the POH by the STC for the G3X.  But you can set a yellow arc.  So for my CHTs, the red line is the POH stupid high number.  My yellow line is 380.

[laytonl]

On the edm930, in addition to the FAA set alarms (e.g., CHT, 475F), you can set advisory alarms.  I set my CHT advisory to 380F.  Lee

[philiplane]

The biggest downside to ripping out the original gauges, and going all EIS, is when the EIS fails. Then you have nothing, and you're grounded.

The advisory monitors can give you all the information you need, without that risk. I have an Insight G4, and my original gauges. All of which have been overhauled, so they function perfectly. I've fixed four complete EIS failures so far this year in customer airplanes. Three were failures of the GEA71 engine computer, which grounds the plane. The fourth was a shorted power line to the 5 volt sensors, which takes out fuel flow, manifold pressure, and oil pressure, also grounding the plane.

How often does this happen? Not often, so far, but these systems are already aging since they date back to 2004. But with legacy gauges there is no single point of failure that takes out everything. 

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, philiplane said:

The biggest downside to ripping out the original gauges, and going all EIS, is when the EIS fails. Then you have nothing, and you're grounded.

The advisory monitors can give you all the information you need, without that risk. I have an Insight G4, and my original gauges. All of which have been overhauled, so they function perfectly. I've fixed four complete EIS failures so far this year in customer airplanes. Three were failures of the GEA71 engine computer, which grounds the plane. The fourth was a shorted power line to the 5 volt sensors, which takes out fuel flow, manifold pressure, and oil pressure, also grounding the plane.

How often does this happen? Not often, so far, but these systems are already aging since they date back to 2004. But with legacy gauges there is no single point of failure that takes out everything. 

EXACTLY!  I appreciate having the redundancy of my 'archaic' factory gauges even though I'm overall very happy with my Insight G3.  But here is an example of how 'modern and reliable' instruments aren't necessarily so 'reliable' (had to cycle power to fix this bizzare anomaly:

 

[hais]

Please allow me to go on a tangent.

Suppose the advisory system could give you actionable information rather than just display raw data or alarm (like, "set FF to X"). Would that be:

1. Useful

2. Ever pass certification 

3. Pass lawyer/insurance approvals?