Seizure of Mooney M20E on tribal lands

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Did the student have a record of lawful admission on his person?  I’m not suggesting he deserved to be harassed.  Some Authority figures behave badly regardless of whether a law has been broken; it’s that much more egregious when no statute has been violated.

He wasn't a student, he was an employee of a company we'd acquired.    They were here to help with some technology transfers.    When that sort of thing happens they split you up, so I don't know the details of what his side of the interrogation was like.   They kept asking me how much his salary was, which I didn't know.   

He was apparently required to have his passport on him, but he didn't know that (nor did I).   That seems to me to be similar to the sort of mistake that this guy made with his airplane.   It was an easy thing to get wrong under the circumstances, when you thought you were okay.    It's enough for somebody to get their foot in the door if they want to make an issue of it for whatever reason.

[Shadrach]

5 minutes ago, EricJ said:

He wasn't a student, he was an employee of a company we'd acquired.    They were here to help with some technology transfers.    When that sort of thing happens they split you up, so I don't know the details of what his side of the interrogation was like.   They kept asking me how much his salary was, which I didn't know.   

He was apparently required to have his passport on him, but he didn't know that (nor did I).   That seems to me to be similar to the sort of mistake that this guy made with his airplane.   It was an easy thing to get wrong under the circumstances, when you thought you were okay.    It's enough for somebody to get their foot in the door if they want to make an issue of it for whatever reason.

I do not think a passport is required to move freely within the country (although it might help), however,  proof of legal entry is (copy of form I94).  Sort of Ironic that a southern border patrol agent is concerning themselves with a Kiwi traveling with a coworker. As if it were likely that he'd made the trek through the Darien Gap to get here... No one would do that to be an employee on the sell side of a merger...

[Yetti]

considering the whole northwest of 1/4 of New Mexico is Reservation and most of the Eastern half of Oklahoma, it is hard not to travel through Reservation Lands on State Highways or Interstate Highways.   Knowing the history helps to understand how things go.   Like in the 50s (mid 1900s) kids were taken to white man's school to destroy the culture.  So the elders kind of don't like white people.   They would believe the reason for destroying the culture is due to most of the Reservations if the blood line gets diluted enough the land will revert back to the US Government.

Also when you go to places like West Texas it's just a couple of generations removed from bad things the Government did to them.   That culture and heritage still exist today.   Most of them will tell you giving up their guns to the Government was a mistake.

[FlyingDude]

53 minutes ago, EricJ said:

He was apparently required to have his passport on him, but he didn't know that (nor did I).

That's sad that he didn't know that. but he should have known it.  In most places foreigners (and in many cases even citizens) need to carry proof of identity (Italy for example).  In some cases tourists that frequent busy areas polluted with pickpockets make copies to carry around and leave their passports in a safe place for protection.  Make sure you do at least that next time you visit Europe.  And never, ever pull the "I'm an American citizen, I have rights" stunt in Europe if you are caught without ID.

[FlyingDude]

51 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

proof of legal entry is (copy of form I94)

They stopped giving I94s some time around 2012.  It all became electronic.  

[Shadrach]

38 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

They stopped giving I94s some time around 2012.  It all became electronic.  

Thanks. And here I was thinking they were made on a printing press and delivered on horseback…

I’m sure that my travel experiences pale in comparison to yours. However, it’s my opinion that it is always prudent to give any government official a paper copy of a document rather than my phone. YMMV…

 

[FlyingDude]

29 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Thanks. And here I was thinking they were made on a printing press and delivered on horseback…

I said "giving", because they used to literally hand out i94s to foreign citizens in inbound flights that you'd fill out with a pen.  The immigration officer would stamp that too and staple it in your passport.  They'd collect it on your way out...

I'm not sure of their printing facilities but horseback delivery sound cool. Just like the horseback cops in NYC. 

 

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

That's sad that he didn't know that. but he should have known it.  In most places foreigners (and in many cases even citizens) need to carry proof of identity (Italy for example).  In some cases tourists that frequent busy areas polluted with pickpockets make copies to carry around and leave their passports in a safe place for protection.  Make sure you do at least that next time you visit Europe.  And never, ever pull the "I'm an American citizen, I have rights" stunt in Europe if you are caught without ID.

He was an experienced traveler, as was I at the time (this was about thirty years ago).   He had ID, including his NZ driving license, just not his passport.   I vouched for his identity and why he was here, which is why they were interested in how much money we were paying him.   Regardless, it was my car they were going to seize, and I was threatened with jail as well.   Some of the hispanic tech ladies in our lab were calling me El Coyote after that. 

[Fly Boomer]

On 9/5/2024 at 9:19 AM, EricJ said:

He was apparently required to have his passport on him, but he didn't know that (nor did I). 

Can't say that I have followed this topic enough to understand what happened or what the resolution was, but it sounds analogous to traveling abroad.  It behooves the traveler to know both the law and the customs, and avoid transgressions of either.  There are countries where "I didn't know" won't cut it.  Or worse, "I'm an American". 

[Elijah]

That airport it not very far from here, I've flown over it before. It definitely sounds like a good place to avoid. During COVID, the conditions on the hualapai reservation were very similar to how it was in China (severely restricted freedom of movement) if that gives you another data point. I think I have enough tools onboard to have pulled the U joint from one of those trucks and nope'd on out of there. Grand canyon caverns is just down the highway and not on indian land. They are very friendly to airplanes and although the runway is dirt, it's in good condition and plenty large enough for a mooney. 

[N201MKTurbo]

16 hours ago, Elijah said:

That airport it not very far from here, I've flown over it before. It definitely sounds like a good place to avoid. During COVID, the conditions on the hualapai reservation were very similar to how it was in China (severely restricted freedom of movement) if that gives you another data point. I think I have enough tools onboard to have pulled the U joint from one of those trucks and nope'd on out of there. Grand canyon caverns is just down the highway and not on indian land. They are very friendly to airplanes and although the runway is dirt, it's in good condition and plenty large enough for a mooney. 

I’ve landed at Grand Canyon Caverns and spent a few days there. I was hiking to Havasu falls. I parked in front of the hotel. The tie downs take up 3 parking spaces. The runway is very long. I ended up taxiing 3/4 of the length. Which is probably harder on the plane than landing or taking off.

[Pinecone]

On 9/5/2024 at 11:22 AM, FlyingDude said:

That's sad that he didn't know that. but he should have known it.  In most places foreigners (and in many cases even citizens) need to carry proof of identity (Italy for example).  In some cases tourists that frequent busy areas polluted with pickpockets make copies to carry around and leave their passports in a safe place for protection.  Make sure you do at least that next time you visit Europe.  And never, ever pull the "I'm an American citizen, I have rights" stunt in Europe if you are caught without ID.

Most of those countries require their own citizens to carry government ID at all times.  It is not just foreigners.