re-intro, and Murphy's Law really does work. Just in slow motion....

[AJ88V]

(Re)introductory post here.  I used to be an active pilot and active on the original Mooney email board, so some may remember me -  as I've recognized more than a few old friends just in 20 minutes of glancing through this forum. Anyway, was based in Chandler AZ, 1970 M20C N9459V, moved to DC area, had her repainted as N7788V.  My flying was tapering off, but the final blows were covid hit, I went through a divorce right in the middle of the lockdowns, plane fell out of annual and I refused to use the mechanic on my home field (good work, way too expensive), then ADS-B mandatory, and 88V sat in a hangar all lonesome.  

Was getting a bit 'out of sight, out of mind' when I got notice that my decrepit DC3 airport was closing forever and I had 30 days to move the plane.  Pandemonium at Hyde Field.  Started to get ferry permit in motion when I failed my medical! Crap. Now I needed a Mooney-rated ferry pilot, with DC3 FRZ privileges, and good weather all at once.  Umm, let's just say the plane got moved, got a fresh annual, and got ADS-B compliant.  

I started working on the FAA med waiver, but the entire medical system was still jacked up coming out of covid.  Keeping this too long story a little shorter, I got all the tests and reports, sent in everything to the FAA, rejected, more tests requested, another medical, a bigger package to the FAA, and then.... nothing.  Calls every week, "In process", then calls every two weeks, then three, then six, then....

Here's the Murphy's Law part...  I was planning some major panel upgrades to go with returning to aviation, but the medical waiver just wasn't coming through.  So I got a hankering for a new motorcycle and started looking.  I didn't need a new MC, but the local dealer made me a terrific offer on just the bike I wanted.  So I figured that IF I bought the motorcycle, Murphy's Law would kick in and I'd get the medical waiver.  I started calling Oklahoma again, "In process".  Then I got someone who actually read my application and asked specific questions.  Then calls the next week said "They have your application",  and back the old pattern. Sighhh.  At least I had a new motorcycle to ride. 

Last week I got an official letter in my mailbox. "We are pleased to inform you"...!!!!!!  It's a 5 year waiver, but I'm almost due for another medical. LOL

88V is scheduled for annual early next month. I'm taking vacation to do my first owner-assist in 20+ years.  Devouring aviation stuff on the internet. Holy crap the online education on YouTube is good. (really recommend The Finer Points).  Glad that most of it is familiar, but watching the vids is upping my confidence.  Bought an iPad mini 6, learning ForeFlight.  Think I'll run down to the airport and reinstall her battery this weekend.  Might do a high speed taxi if things aren't busy.

That's for now.  Lots of things have changed in aviation (if not old Mooneys), so I expect to be coming here with stupid questions.  

Thanks for reading.

 - Clear skies and tailwinds.  

AJ.  88V, KCJR

[wombat]

Congratulations on the re-issuance of your medical.  That's a really tough process and it takes a lot of time and dedication; your effort was finally rewarded!!

I hope you have a great time getting back into aviation and many great adventures in your plane.

[hammdo]

Time for basic med?

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, hammdo said:

Time for basic med?

By all means, don’t run that risk again.

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, hammdo said:

Time for basic med?

He should have done that BEFORE the medical

 

[Will.iam]

Can he do basic med now with a 5 year weiver?

[MikeOH]

4 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Can he do basic med now with a 5 year weiver?

It is not clear if he now has obtained a 3rd Class Medical, or just has the necessary waiver.  If the waiver is like an SI, then he should be all set for Basic Med going forward once he gets the one-time medical.

[AJ88V]

Hey, thanks for your replies.  I read in the AOPA mag that once you have a waiver, you can go to basic med and not have to do a full AME medical.  Thanks for bringing it up, as I've been thinking about it.

I applied for Class II.  Used to apply for Class I but I'm 65 and thought it better to just switch to II.  The Waiver letter says I'm good for whatever I applied for, but cannot go higher, so I guess I'm at Class II for life (if I'm lucky!).

I always looked at going to my AME (who I've known for 20 years) as just another set of eyes on target, and the waiver lets him pass on the med issue for the waiver.

The waiver is 5 years from issuance until I have to repeat tests.  In the meantime, what would be the advantage of going to Basic Med?

Thanks, AJ

 

 

[hammdo]

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/august/pilot/on-course-basicmed-success#:~:text=Pilots who complete the steps,no FAA medical certificate needed.

https://www.pilotmall.com/blogs/news/basicmed-explained-guide-to-understand-the-essentials?srsltid=AfmBOopzzh7gFKldMCsEsvF2u3THTDr9gTjcA6x1737G4xPs4Gr5eYTB
 

FAA realty has change some of the limits to higher weights:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2024/may/15/congress-passes-faa-reauthorization#:~:text=Expansion of BasicMed%3A Increases the,seven (up from six).

Just a start…

-Don

 

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, AJ88V said:

Hey, thanks for your replies.  I read in the AOPA mag that once you have a waiver, you can go to basic med and not have to do a full AME medical.  Thanks for bringing it up, as I've been thinking about it.

I applied for Class II.  Used to apply for Class I but I'm 65 and thought it better to just switch to II.  The Waiver letter says I'm good for whatever I applied for, but cannot go higher, so I guess I'm at Class II for life (if I'm lucky!).

I always looked at going to my AME (who I've known for 20 years) as just another set of eyes on target, and the waiver lets him pass on the med issue for the waiver.

The waiver is 5 years from issuance until I have to repeat tests.  In the meantime, what would be the advantage of going to Basic Med?

Thanks, AJ

 

 

No idea what your waiver is for, but if it is NOT one of the few Basic Med disqualifying conditions ("normal" Class I,II,III disqualifying conditions do NOT apply) then you NEVER have to get another Class I,II, or III Medical; THAT is the real advantage of Basic Med. I'm only familiar with SIs, not waivers, but with Basic Med I do NOT have to worry about my SI letter's expiration date as the letter no longer even applies once I have Basic Med. IOW, if the waiver is treated the same, then you will NOT have to repeat any tests 5 years from now.  As long as your regular physician signs off on your Basic Med exam every 4 years, you are good to go!

[kortopates]

AJ,
I remember you from the Mooney list, welcome to Mooneyspace,
How long had it been - 15-20 years?
Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MB65E]

Welcome Back!

That’s life, At least you still have your old Mooney!! 

-Matt

[AJ88V]

9 hours ago, kortopates said:

AJ,
I remember you from the Mooney list, welcome to Mooneyspace,
How long had it been - 15-20 years?
Paul

Thanks for the note, Paul! Yep, probably has been 15 years.  I think Mooney-Tech is still coming to one of my email accounts, but I only scan (since I haven't been flying).  It looks like Mooneyspace has become the new list server!

[AJ88V]

9 hours ago, MB65E said:

Welcome Back!

That’s life, At least you still have your old Mooney!! 

-Matt

Thanks, Matt!  Keeping "April" (88V) through the divorce was quite an accomplishment, but aviation was a big part of my retirement plan - as in move to someplace cheaper than northern Virginia where I could get a hangar, start upgrading the panel, fly around the country.  Then this medical issue put the kibosh on those plans.  Super excited about getting airborne again and dreaming about long cross-countries that a Mooney is built for!

[AJ88V]

13 hours ago, hammdo said:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/august/pilot/on-course-basicmed-success#:~:text=Pilots who complete the steps,no FAA medical certificate needed.

https://www.pilotmall.com/blogs/news/basicmed-explained-guide-to-understand-the-essentials?srsltid=AfmBOopzzh7gFKldMCsEsvF2u3THTDr9gTjcA6x1737G4xPs4Gr5eYTB
 

FAA realty has change some of the limits to higher weights:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2024/may/15/congress-passes-faa-reauthorization#:~:text=Expansion of BasicMed%3A Increases the,seven (up from six).

Just a start…

-Don

 

This was really helpful, Don. 

I think I misspoke -probably have a valid Class 2 med (not a Class 1), which reverts to a Class 3 automatically.  Can't check since I don't have the paperwork handy.

Apologies to forum readers since this conversation is going way off base of General Mooney talk, but I also think once you start a thread, you run with it.

Another great link on medical stuff is here:  https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources/airman-medical-certification

My condition is early stage glaucoma with (thankfully) very slight vision loss.  This is NOT in the list of disqualifying conditions (and I easily pass the vision tests), but does require a Waiver.  I did have another 'suspected' DISQUALIFYING condition that I believe was covid-induced, and reported a medication on my medical application.  Having two conditions to get tested for, both by specialists, in a 90 day window + the messed-up post covid medical mess made all this much harder. BUT! It seems the FAA Medical decided the 'disqualifying' issue was not real (true dat! amen) and the waiver issued is only for the vision.  From the AOPA link above:

• A special issuance is different from a waiver or Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA). Waivers are issued for static defects that are not likely to change. Useful vision in only one eye (monocular vision) is one condition for which a medical flight test might be used. There are several hundred pilots flying with monocular vision waivers. Upper or lower limb amputees can also qualify for a SODA with a flight test. Medical flight tests are sometimes conducted to demonstrate that an applicant can safely operate the aircraft.
• The waiver becomes part of your medical certificate and shows that, although you don't necessarily meet the minimum standards to hold a medical certificate, you have satisfied the FAA that you can safely exercise the privileges of the certificate(s) you hold.

So my waiver says 5 years.  I don't think I have anything else that would be an issue, so getting a regular Class 2 or 3 shouldn't be a problem.  On the other hand , it seems that IF you have a valid Med Certificate (I do) with a Special Issuance, you can switch over to Basic Med before your medical expires. Does this also apply to Waivers?  I need to dig through a couple saved AOPA Pilot mags to find the article since I haven't found this exact thing described elsewhere so explicitly.

My IA A&P told me I was stupid to report the medications.  I might not have had I known the morass it lead to, but I was sort of panicked trying to get a medical and a BFR to move a plane that needed a ferry permit + permit inspection so I could fly it from an airport closing forever in 30 days, on top of approaching winter weather and working a full time job!  So, yeah, dumb chit for reporting the medications!  Fortunately, it all has worked out (and I got another motorcycle I don't really need! LOL).

And, finally, IF you ever do find yourself with a disqualifying or concerning medical condition, work with your AME.  Mine was instrumental in helping me prepare the package of information sent to the FAA.  It was 100% worth paying for an extra doctors visit to get help with my application.

 - Clear skies, AJ

Edited August 17 by AJ88V

[MikeOH]

@AJ88V

I don't believe you need to have a current Medical in order to avail yourself of Basic Med; you don't have to get it before your medical expires.   I believe the rule is that you needed (past tense) to have had a valid Medical sometime after 2006 (i.e. not revoked).  I think the problem is that you APPLIED for a medical and were deferred...at that point you had to obtain the Medical ONE time to qualify for Basic Med.

Also, IMHO, you were 100% right to divulge all of your meds.  Not doing so is a really good way to get your certs yanked!  OKC takes a dim view of withholding medical information!

[M20F-1968]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:19 PM, hammdo said:

Time for basic med?

Now that you have a medical, you should seriously consider Basic Med as this is your opportunity to a pathway with less challenges.

John Breda

On 8/16/2024 at 3:08 PM, AJ88V said:

(Re)introductory post here.  I used to be an active pilot and active on the original Mooney email board, so some may remember me -  as I've recognized more than a few old friends just in 20 minutes of glancing through this forum. Anyway, was based in Chandler AZ, 1970 M20C N9459V, moved to DC area, had her repainted as N7788V.  My flying was tapering off, but the final blows were covid hit, I went through a divorce right in the middle of the lockdowns, plane fell out of annual and I refused to use the mechanic on my home field (good work, way too expensive), then ADS-B mandatory, and 88V sat in a hangar all lonesome.  

Was getting a bit 'out of sight, out of mind' when I got notice that my decrepit DC3 airport was closing forever and I had 30 days to move the plane.  Pandemonium at Hyde Field.  Started to get ferry permit in motion when I failed my medical! Crap. Now I needed a Mooney-rated ferry pilot, with DC3 FRZ privileges, and good weather all at once.  Umm, let's just say the plane got moved, got a fresh annual, and got ADS-B compliant.  

I started working on the FAA med waiver, but the entire medical system was still jacked up coming out of covid.  Keeping this too long story a little shorter, I got all the tests and reports, sent in everything to the FAA, rejected, more tests requested, another medical, a bigger package to the FAA, and then.... nothing.  Calls every week, "In process", then calls every two weeks, then three, then six, then....

Here's the Murphy's Law part...  I was planning some major panel upgrades to go with returning to aviation, but the medical waiver just wasn't coming through.  So I got a hankering for a new motorcycle and started looking.  I didn't need a new MC, but the local dealer made me a terrific offer on just the bike I wanted.  So I figured that IF I bought the motorcycle, Murphy's Law would kick in and I'd get the medical waiver.  I started calling Oklahoma again, "In process".  Then I got someone who actually read my application and asked specific questions.  Then calls the next week said "They have your application",  and back the old pattern. Sighhh.  At least I had a new motorcycle to ride. 

Last week I got an official letter in my mailbox. "We are pleased to inform you"...!!!!!!  It's a 5 year waiver, but I'm almost due for another medical. LOL

88V is scheduled for annual early next month. I'm taking vacation to do my first owner-assist in 20+ years.  Devouring aviation stuff on the internet. Holy crap the online education on YouTube is good. (really recommend The Finer Points).  Glad that most of it is familiar, but watching the vids is upping my confidence.  Bought an iPad mini 6, learning ForeFlight.  Think I'll run down to the airport and reinstall her battery this weekend.  Might do a high speed taxi if things aren't busy.

That's for now.  Lots of things have changed in aviation (if not old Mooneys), so I expect to be coming here with stupid questions.  

Thanks for reading.

 - Clear skies and tailwinds.  

AJ.  88V, KCJR

 

[DXB]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:08 PM, AJ88V said:

(Re)introductory post here.  I used to be an active pilot and active on the original Mooney email board, so some may remember me -  as I've recognized more than a few old friends just in 20 minutes of glancing through this forum. Anyway, was based in Chandler AZ, 1970 M20C N9459V, moved to DC area, had her repainted as N7788V.  My flying was tapering off, but the final blows were covid hit, I went through a divorce right in the middle of the lockdowns, plane fell out of annual and I refused to use the mechanic on my home field (good work, way too expensive), then ADS-B mandatory, and 88V sat in a hangar all lonesome.  

Was getting a bit 'out of sight, out of mind' when I got notice that my decrepit DC3 airport was closing forever and I had 30 days to move the plane.  Pandemonium at Hyde Field.  Started to get ferry permit in motion when I failed my medical! Crap. Now I needed a Mooney-rated ferry pilot, with DC3 FRZ privileges, and good weather all at once.  Umm, let's just say the plane got moved, got a fresh annual, and got ADS-B compliant.  

I started working on the FAA med waiver, but the entire medical system was still jacked up coming out of covid.  Keeping this too long story a little shorter, I got all the tests and reports, sent in everything to the FAA, rejected, more tests requested, another medical, a bigger package to the FAA, and then.... nothing.  Calls every week, "In process", then calls every two weeks, then three, then six, then....

Here's the Murphy's Law part...  I was planning some major panel upgrades to go with returning to aviation, but the medical waiver just wasn't coming through.  So I got a hankering for a new motorcycle and started looking.  I didn't need a new MC, but the local dealer made me a terrific offer on just the bike I wanted.  So I figured that IF I bought the motorcycle, Murphy's Law would kick in and I'd get the medical waiver.  I started calling Oklahoma again, "In process".  Then I got someone who actually read my application and asked specific questions.  Then calls the next week said "They have your application",  and back the old pattern. Sighhh.  At least I had a new motorcycle to ride. 

Last week I got an official letter in my mailbox. "We are pleased to inform you"...!!!!!!  It's a 5 year waiver, but I'm almost due for another medical. LOL

88V is scheduled for annual early next month. I'm taking vacation to do my first owner-assist in 20+ years.  Devouring aviation stuff on the internet. Holy crap the online education on YouTube is good. (really recommend The Finer Points).  Glad that most of it is familiar, but watching the vids is upping my confidence.  Bought an iPad mini 6, learning ForeFlight.  Think I'll run down to the airport and reinstall her battery this weekend.  Might do a high speed taxi if things aren't busy.

That's for now.  Lots of things have changed in aviation (if not old Mooneys), so I expect to be coming here with stupid questions.  

Thanks for reading.

 - Clear skies and tailwinds.  

AJ.  88V, KCJR

I'm very glad you're getting back to flying and wish you a safe journey back to full proficiency.  Reading the story about your medical made my blood boil. As a physician myself, I have pained to watch multiple other pilots go through the same ridiculously ordeal, although yours may be the worst of all.  Like so many others, I suspect you were perfectly safe to keep flying from the day your medical was denied going forward - in many (most?) such cases, any physician with real expertise in the condition in question would find it patently obvious upon looking at the details that it did not pose any special risk for incapacity in the cockpit. I am stunned by the absurdity of some of these cases; sadly, I have also seen the loss of proficiency while waiting many months or even years to clear this stuff up itself become a safety hazard.

The "physicians" who choose to work for the FAA medical branch are a disgrace to both medicine and aviation -  it's a "special" kind of individual who would want to make the transition from practitioner to regulatory federal bureaucrat. 

[dkkim73]

37 minutes ago, DXB said:

The "physicians" who choose to work for the FAA medical branch are a disgrace to both medicine and aviation -  it's a "special" kind of individual who would want to make the transition from practitioner to regulatory federal bureaucrat. 

I've not had the 'pleasure' of being a civilian AME, but was a military flight doc (USAF). One of my more ambitious colleagues was moving up and at one point said he was considering going to the ANG national bureau. I paused. He paused, then said, "yes, I'm considering going to *be part of the problem*". We both had a good laugh. 

Haven't dealt with the FAA medical branch yet (knocking on wood). Sounds a bit like medical academia, where a lot of docs go to get promoted out of useful work, and write nihilistic evidence-based medicine policy papers, or rename the same diseases every 5-10 yrs then harangue the rest of us about terminology. Not that I'm cynical. 

You could argue that a lack of common-sense representation results in institutional capture by overly-cautious people, and that that's a good reason for those of us who don't want to serve in a bureaucracy to ... serve in a bureaucracy. E.g. maintenance rules, fuel standards, etc. I wonder how it will go as a lot of old-timers with field experience further age out in some areas. 

Have you got your AME certification? If so, what's your experience been in being able to help people? I'm hospital-based, so don't really have a place to hang a shingle. But it might be a good way to pay it forward in the aviation community for me someday. Put it on the project list...

[DXB]

2 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

I've not had the 'pleasure' of being a civilian AME, but was a military flight doc (USAF). One of my more ambitious colleagues was moving up and at one point said he was considering going to the ANG national bureau. I paused. He paused, then said, "yes, I'm considering going to *be part of the problem*". We both had a good laugh. 

Haven't dealt with the FAA medical branch yet (knocking on wood). Sounds a bit like medical academia, where a lot of docs go to get promoted out of useful work, and write nihilistic evidence-based medicine policy papers, or rename the same diseases every 5-10 yrs then harangue the rest of us about terminology. Not that I'm cynical. 

You could argue that a lack of common-sense representation results in institutional capture by overly-cautious people, and that that's a good reason for those of us who don't want to serve in a bureaucracy to ... serve in a bureaucracy. E.g. maintenance rules, fuel standards, etc. I wonder how it will go as a lot of old-timers with field experience further age out in some areas. 

Have you got your AME certification? If so, what's your experience been in being able to help people? I'm hospital-based, so don't really have a place to hang a shingle. But it might be a good way to pay it forward in the aviation community for me someday. Put it on the project list...

There's little incentive to be an AME - no economic incentive to support going to the trouble, and ones obligations in the AME role are highly codified, leaving little discretion in the exam to make a positive difference for pilots.  Still, the folks who do it are providing an important service and deserve to be treated as such, particularly given they generally aren't making much money off of it.  

[AJ88V]

7 hours ago, DXB said:

I'm very glad you're getting back to flying and wish you a safe journey back to full proficiency.  Reading the story about your medical made my blood boil. As a physician myself, I have pained to watch multiple other pilots go through the same ridiculously ordeal, although yours may be the worst of all.  Like so many others, I suspect you were perfectly safe to keep flying from the day your medical was denied going forward - in many (most?) such cases, any physician with real expertise in the condition in question would find it patently obvious upon looking at the details that it did not pose any special risk for incapacity in the cockpit. I am stunned by the absurdity of some of these cases; sadly, I have also seen the loss of proficiency while waiting many months or even years to clear this stuff up itself become a safety hazard.

The "physicians" who choose to work for the FAA medical branch are a disgrace to both medicine and aviation -  it's a "special" kind of individual who would want to make the transition from practitioner to regulatory federal bureaucrat. 

 

6 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

I've not had the 'pleasure' of being a civilian AME, but was a military flight doc (USAF). One of my more ambitious colleagues was moving up and at one point said he was considering going to the ANG national bureau. I paused. He paused, then said, "yes, I'm considering going to *be part of the problem*". We both had a good laugh. 

Haven't dealt with the FAA medical branch yet (knocking on wood). Sounds a bit like medical academia, where a lot of docs go to get promoted out of useful work, and write nihilistic evidence-based medicine policy papers, or rename the same diseases every 5-10 yrs then harangue the rest of us about terminology. Not that I'm cynical. 

You could argue that a lack of common-sense representation results in institutional capture by overly-cautious people, and that that's a good reason for those of us who don't want to serve in a bureaucracy to ... serve in a bureaucracy. E.g. maintenance rules, fuel standards, etc. I wonder how it will go as a lot of old-timers with field experience further age out in some areas. 

Have you got your AME certification? If so, what's your experience been in being able to help people? I'm hospital-based, so don't really have a place to hang a shingle. But it might be a good way to pay it forward in the aviation community for me someday. Put it on the project list...

Thanks to both of you for your 'congrats' and your thoughts on this subject.

A few months ago I read that the AOPA was petitioning the FAA to allow Senior AMEs to grant a waiver on the spot, THEN the paperwork gets submitted and the FAA has x-number of months (90 days?) to either concur with the waiver or deny the petition.  This sounds like a vastly better process than the current one.  It would let someone who has actually seen the applicant in person make a determination.  Of course, that also puts the liability onto the AME making the waiver, at least initially until the FAA has final say.  

In defense of the system and the FAA employees who "move at the speed of Government", I imagine that they are diligent and well meaning.  I'm a Government scientist and find just about everybody I deal with - from all parts of the Government - are dedicated and (reasonably) hard working.  But we have rules for everything.  It's just that so much of the system is set up to not get the Government sued, because that's the society we have become.  That's not the only reason that everything moves at the speed of molasses.  We worry about Congressional inquiries and a million other things, but keeping the Government on the safe side of the law is the biggest reason I can think of for things working so d@mned slowly.  It's definitely that more than worrying about your job, but getting raked over the coals for a mistake is no fun either.

As for a pilot-physician serving as an AME, well, I think it would be a fine service indeed.  You would 'get it' and it would be a great way for a GP-type to talk about aviation in the normal course of work!

Thanks again!  - AJ