Getting a Little Discouraged

[co2bruce]

Finally had my actuator springs changed out today (after waiting 2 months for the part to come from Mooney), and my MSC mechanic informed me that there is a brass bushing that is worn and needs replacing. He says if he had one he would change it out right then but he did not have one and had to order it from Mooney.  3 - 5 weeks to get a new bushing for the gear actuator!! I originally thought that Mooney being "out of business" was not going to be too much of an inconvenience because most of the parts are not Mooney specific, but I'm finding out they are. I'm not new to Mooney, this is my third one and I have over 250 hours in them, but I'm starting to think this problem is going to get worse,not better. Are we fighting the inevitable, my mind is wandering to other aircraft still in production. Help, I need some consoling! I love my Mooney but I don’t want to be always waiting on parts from the factory. I like for my aircraft to be 100% when I fly.   

[Cruiser]

Do you have the part number for the part and have you tried any of the Mooney supply sites in addition to the Mooney factory?

Secondly, if my mechanic had me waiting 2 months for a part an then found another part that needed ordering I would be telling him in very clear language what I thought about his operation.

[PTK]

Mooney parts are going to be fine. We're going through some rough seas (air) right now, that's all. I'm not worried (yet!) and I love my Mooney too!

Your bigger problem is your mechanic and his ignorance! With all due respect if I was waiting 8 weeks for a part and then told I have to wait 5 more for another related part I'd find another mechanic. To me this would be unacceptable behavior from an MSC. Period. He should've known initially what parts he needed to do the job and order all of them. How does he justify his MSC charges, did you ask him?! Ridiculous!

[Guest]

WOW!!!!!!  Talk about poor diagnostics, inspection, whatever I'd be one unhappy camper. Just like any out of production aircraft, parts can be found but I would not rely on others to find them. 

[KSMooniac]

Agree about finding all of the worn parts the first time, but if it is indeed a simple bushing, I would try to get a machine shop to duplicate it.  That is why we have the owner-produced parts provision in the FARs.  You can provide a worn part as a basis to fabricate a new one and that still qualifies under the regs.  You just can't sell them to someone else.

[Lionudakis]

Quote: KSMooniac

Agree about finding all of the worn parts the first time, but if it is indeed a simple bushing, I would try to get a machine shop to duplicate it.  That is why we have the owner-produced parts provision in the FARs.  You can provide a worn part as a basis to fabricate a new one and that still qualifies under the regs.  You just can't sell them to someone else.

[fantom]

Assuming you're using our local MSC, I'm not surprised.

[Immelman]

So bushings wear.... but is your airplane still airworthy with the old one re-installed? If so, no, its not perfect, but it has probably been flying like that for some time.

In instances like these if a part is worn, but safe and within whatever limits the maint manual (or as data determined by the IA) says, I'm ok with putting it back together, continuing operation and replacing the part later. Having an airplane sit 5 weeks is very undesirable.

[johnggreen]

I wish that I could find solace in the optimism of Allsmiles.  I find none.  I will repeat myself, and then, probably repeat again.  I expressed my concern to MAPA by Letter To The Editor of the looming issue of parts and was met with nothing up unbridled and unjustified optimism about the future of MAC.

Truth is, it is rare that things "get better" by themselves.  Mooney owners need an organization that is concerned about keeping Mooneys flying, not one that is little more than an old men's club whose idea of planning is the location for the next ice cream social.  That organization will not come from MAPA or the defunct MOA.  It must have as its genesis some one or some group with a business organization structure that can efficiently function and a profit motive as the impetus.

My wife, who is herself a very astute business oriented individual, gave me her unbridled permission to sell the Bravo the minute that MAC shut down production.  It is another time when I regret not following her advice.

Mooney owners, are, in my opinion, "whistling past the graveyard."  We have a growing problem, and, to date, little concrete evidence of improvement.

I will be the first to admit that I could be wrong.  I just haven't seeen any reason for optimism.

Jgreen

[Sabremech]

Hi Jgreen,

 The parts issue you have is the exact reason I started my new company three months ago to produce obsolete or hard to get aircraft parts. I'm always looking for new parts to manufacture where there is a real need. I'd be more than happy to help get your Mooney back in the air.

 If I can help, e-mail me at david@vintageairworks.com  or call 262-914-9589.

 Thanks, 

 David Staffeldt

Vintage Airworks LLC      www.vintageairworks.com

[aviatoreb]

Quote: johnggreen

Mooney owners, are, in my opinion, "whistling past the graveyard."  We have a growing problem, and, to date, little concrete evidence of improvement.

[aviatoreb]

You know I reread what I wrote - I didn't say - what is the alternative?  2 years ago I was thinking of buying a Bonanza for these reasons.  Beech was still building and there's lots of them.  Didn't fit me physically, and now today look at what shape Beech is in as a company in dire straights.  Diamond was what I had but they had just closed their Canada production facilities and since there were only 1200 DA40s I had no feeling of safety in numbers like I do with Mooney. Also there are almost no STCs for small run airplanes like that in these times.  Even a company that seems very healthy and modern like Cirrus could easily go down the hole in a few years if the environment gets much worse.  So I decided to fly what I like and try not to let the hull value get too high and go with safety in numbers in that with 6k Mooneys flying then somehow the shared problem is more likely to be solved in some form.

[co2bruce]

Wow, hold on I was not clear! The actuator springs are a life limit item. 1000 hours and they are supposed to be changed. I purchased the plane a year ago with 980 hours and when it was going in for annual we ordered the springs. No misdiagnosis. While changing the springs he noticed the bushing and ordered it. The plane is back together and flying. I don't think this is an issue with my Msc and if can find the part he will install it. I would not think he would assume the liability of installing a non Mooney part, and as a businessan I understand that. 

[DaV8or]

Quote: johnggreen

Mooney owners, are, in my opinion, "whistling past the graveyard."  We have a growing problem, and, to date, little concrete evidence of improvement.

I will be the first to admit that I could be wrong.  I just haven't seeen any reason for optimism.

Jgreen

[jetdriven]

+1+1  Tell them how it is, John.   welcome to the age of 1800$ gear doors, 7K windshields,  and 1200$ 40:1 landing gear sets. 

I posted on the MAPA list the homecoming felt like a funeral for 2$ avgas and affordable parts, and I was promptly cut down.

And to think we bought a Mooney because Beech parts were unaffordable, just in time for MAC to shut down, and foreclose on themselves blowing out the debt in the process. I sure wish I could do that from time to time.

Quote: johnggreen

I wish that I could find solace in the optimism of Allsmiles.  I find none.  I will repeat myself, and then, probably repeat again.  I expressed my concern to MAPA by Letter To The Editor of the looming issue of parts and was met with nothing up unbridled and unjustified optimism about the future of MAC.

Truth is, it is rare that things "get better" by themselves.  Mooney owners need an organization that is concerned about keeping Mooneys flying, not one that is little more than an old men's club whose idea of planning is the location for the next ice cream social.  That organization will not come from MAPA or the defunct MOA.  It must have as its genesis some one or some group with a business organization structure that can efficiently function and a profit motive as the impetus.

My wife, who is herself a very astute business oriented individual, gave me her unbridled permission to sell the Bravo the minute that MAC shut down production.  It is another time when I regret not following her advice.

Mooney owners, are, in my opinion, "whistling past the graveyard."  We have a growing problem, and, to date, little concrete evidence of improvement.

I will be the first to admit that I could be wrong.  I just haven't seeen any reason for optimism.

Jgreen

[co2bruce]

 

The spring (you are correct there is only one) according to the service bulletin is a 1000 hour life item and they need to be replaced. Whats weird is the bulletin specifies every model Mooney (with electro gear extension except the S , but I think that is an oversight) with the Eaton actuator needs to change the spring at 1000 hours. 

On a lighter note, I just came from my MSC and saw the part w are talking about. It is the "drive clutch" for the actuator, and its inside the Eaton gear motor assembly. It is a piece of brass but it would not be easy to duplicate at a machine shop  It is an Eaton part not a Mooney part. However, Eaton will not sell it to anyone but Mooney. My is worn but not unusable.

On a happy note, the service manager said, he believes the parts backlog and problems at the Mooney factory in his opinion, are getting better ........   if its true maybe there are happier times ahead for us all.  

 

[Vref]

I had mine done also when doing the airframe overhaul. I didn't have problem for the" no backspring clutch"  kit (even in europe). There is  a kit availabe with a partnumber.

I am sure if you use a partsbase like fipart.com or another one you can find another source where this item is stocked...

Its indeed a part for the eaton actuator 1000Hrs SB...the kit is not a cheap part...

rgds

Luc

[triple8s]

The only thing I know of tht can keep an airplane on the ground is a lack of money or a load of red tape. Proof of that are the old warbirds that can still be kept in the air. I saw the GlacierGirl rebuilt and LOTS of those parts cant be bought.

[KSMooniac]

Quote: DaV8or

The problem is, MAC hasn't either given up on the dream of new aircraft production, or just gone out of business. MAC controls production and distibution of all the Mooney specific parts. Many of these fall outside the scope of owner produced parts. As long as MAC is in business, we are beholden to them to produce these parts and until they get serious about becoming a parts and service company and not an aircraft manufacturer, those parts are going to be coming spuratically, depending on finances.

If Mooney were to go belly up, an organization or shop could buy up the required paperwork and get to the business of making parts. Many of the existing MSCs are willing to do parts production, but they are held back by the factory. Look around the ramps of America. How many airworthy, flying extinct aircraft types do you see flying? Lots. The list is long of defunct airplane companies, yet their products live on. There is a way, we're just in purgatory right now.

 

[co2bruce]

Playing Devils Advocate, If an owner produced part fails and causes liability who would then be responsible. For example if I produced the spring, and its failure can be determined to be the cause of an accident, Am I responsible, or the AI that signed off on my work? The parts manufacturer would certainly be off the hook, as well as Mooney. If I were a service facility I would not want the liability of returning a plane to service with "non-certified" parts, if certified ones were available just too expensive or too long of a wait. Just because a part is mega expensive (mostly due to FAA regulations) such as carpet, and mats for our planes, does not mean we can buy cheaper ones. (You can not put car mats in your plane, even though many people do. 

[Sabremech]

This is a case where the owner is liable if it's installed under the provisions of owner produced parts. The A&P or IA will sign it off as an owner produced part and release himself from liability (Not always the case if it ends up in court though). The parts aren't just expensive because of the certifcation process, but the legal and liabilty side of it when you go to sell the parts. The insurance rates are extremely high for people in the business of manufacturing aircraft parts. It all ads up to expensive parts.

[jwilkins]

I have posted this link before, but it is worth re-posting for anyone who would like a plain language story about owner produced parts.

It is very difficult to reverse engineer some parts wthout the engineering drawing that specifies material, treatment (such as heat treatment) surface finish, tolerances and special notes. Some parts may be easy, but many are not. It is really important to note that if you are planning to fabricate an owner produced part it should conform to the original. You can't decide to use 'stronger' materials or 'improve' on the design and have it pass as an owner fabricated part. "I've got a great idea for a better way to do this" is NOT an owner fabricated part. It is an experimental modification.

Personally I do not have a problem with non-structural and not flight safety parts such as the instrument panel mentioned. I have fabricated torsion springs for access doors to replace broken springs. Bushings may be OK depending on the application. I would not make any parts for the gear actuator if I did not have access to the original drawings and specifications. In all cases I would discuss it with the AP first and make sure we are not able to source the part through an approved channel. In most cases 'because I can do it for less money' is not a good reason. We need to support these sources so they are around when we are AOG and in a bind. My opinion only.

http://150cessna.tripod.com/parts.html

Jim

 

Anyway, here is a link to an article about owner fabricated parts

 

[flyboy0681]

Flying Magazine has recently made available online their February article on the M20J. Parts availability is mentioned in the piece.

http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/pistons/magic-mooney-201?page=0,3

[jetdriven]

Quote: co2bruce

 

Just because a part is mega expensive (mostly due to FAA regulations) such as carpet, and mats for our planes, does not mean we can buy cheaper ones. (You can not put car mats in your plane, even though many people do. 

 

[N601RX]

Quote: jetdriven

WHat I find amusing is the FAA approved fire retardant carpet is glued to a cardboard sidewall.