Panel upgrade

[bixmooney]

I have had this 62c model for a while and flying it Vfr.  100 miles typically and I have enjoyed it.    
I would like to travel farther.   
 

I really want an autopilot but have read all the posts I could find here and other places.   If that is all I needed, then I would just do that but I have other issues.  
 

I feel like I need to do the radios , intercom and do a panel gps and engine monitor first and then do an autopilot later.  
 

If anyone wants to suggest what they would do somewhat cost efficiently for the first phase, I would appreciate the input.   
 

thanks. 

[ArtVandelay]

Pick a good shop, where are you located?

[Robert Hicks]

If it was mine I’d find a gma340, gns430, gtr225 and a gtx327. I’d consider dual g5 or av30. You’d prob be around 25k installed tho. A couple years ago I did Dynon hdx, ps450 and gns430w. Cost me about 25k but I am also the installer. Add 20k if you gotta calculate labor. 

[Bob E]

If you're flying VFR, an autopilot should be way down on your list.  You need:

• a good VFR GPS with Bluetooth such as the Garmin Aera 660 with a panel dock.  It should be at the top-center where the audio panel is now.
• a digital com radio such as a Garmin GTR-200 or an iCom IC-A220.  Get rid of the ancient Terra navcom and whatever that is above it.  Think about whether you ever want to use VORs and if so get a navcom, with a VOR display to the right of the turn & slip, instead of just a com radio.
• a mode-S transponder that will send ADS-B traffic info to your GPS or to your iPad running ForeFlight

As long as the attitude indicator holds out, just keep using it.  When it needs an overhaul, that's the time to upgrade to a digital attitude indicator G-5 or an AV-30-C.

Same with the heading indicator.

Get rid of the DME; you don't need it for VFR flight.

[Pinecone]

I would not put the money into buying and installing a 430.  They are at end of life.  Better to put in one of the newer ones.

-355 is GPS nav and comm.

-375 is GPS nav and ADSB transponder

-650 is GPS and VOR nav and comm.

The more you can do at once (like the whole job) the less it will cost overall as you are not paying to have the interior removed and replaced again and again.  Plus, you can get rid of ALL the old wiring.  They took 53 POUNDS of wiring out of my plane.  

[BlueSky247]

Following. I'll probably be looking to upgrade from steam gauges as well.

[Marc_B]

11 hours ago, Bob E said:

If you're flying VFR, an autopilot should be way down on your list.

I don't feel that's necessarily true.  For a distance traveling machine, like many Mooneys are, a solid AP makes it much easier to focus on the big picture (route, weather, ATC comms, etc.).  For a local VFR aircraft with mostly short flights it may not matter as much.  But in my mind the Mooney platform was built to be a fully capable IFR traveling machine...and an AP makes that SO much less workload, less stress and more capable.  YMMV

edit: as an aside, for a distance traveling VFR only pilot, I'd suggest that a capable autopilot is potentially life saving with inadvertent VFR into IMC.

[Utah20Gflyer]

You’ll need a gps and maybe g5s or GI 275s before you get the auto pilot in order for the auto pilot to be optimized.   You didn’t mention your budget which is a huge factor in giving you feedback.  
 

Personally I would rather go with the Garmin 175/355/375 over the older 430s that are loosing support.  I have the 355 and really like it.  

[Marc_B]

The biggest problem/question with panel talk is how much are you willing to spend with what capability?  In order to get the basics of a "modern" panel there is such a sizable buy in for equipment and install labor that it makes full featured vs basic all shades of lots of AMUs (and downtime).  Even a decent WAAS nav/comm and a wing leveler can be quite a bit.  But the one common denominator is try to only spend labor ONCE.  The incremental build will always be quite a bit more in the long run.  Also since Osh is coming up, it's a great way to see what's out there and speak with a variety of pilots who have a variety of different equipment and experiences first hand.  Come to Osh and find the Mooney Caravan tent!!

[phxcobraz]

I am slowly making my way to a panel upgrade as well. I am saving so I can do it all at once, rather than piecemeal. But I also already have a 430W, KX155, 327, EI CGR 30P/C so not really in a rush.

If I was in your position, which is pretty much a blank slate of much much older avionics, I would look at a full panel makeover.

Garmin G3X or Dynon HDX, Garmin 375, Garmin 205, PS Engineering PAR 200B with remote com.(Creates a pretty clean panel) If you decide to do an AP, you can go for a G500 or Bendix Aerocruz 100, they are the only available for your model. They will increase your cost significantly.

This would get you full glass, engine monitor, 2 radios, and an IFR approved GPS with ADSB-in-out transponder. You could go with G5s or GI275s instead of a G3X however you would then still want to install a separate engine monitor, which kind makes it a wash.

 

FWIW I have flown all over the country in my C with a basic panel VFR and using ipad + stratux and it really suits all my needs. A $50k panel looks great and helps if you do lots of IFR flying, but if you don't plan to do that, you really don't need all the extras. An AP would be nice, but Mooneys trim out pretty well without them.

[Fritz1]

endless possibilities, start with a cardboard panel, draw or print full size images of what shall go in there with $ numbers on them, things will start revealing themselves, ask yourself how much you got in the airplane, how much more are you ready to spend over what time period and what an airplane would look like and cost that has close to everything installed the way you want, start talking to an avionics shop that is willing to do the upgrade

[Echo]

If you already have a functioning wing leveler add an Accu-Flite and you will have a heading bug.  Combined with an Aera and back-up Ipad mini you have great situational awareness.  There are many engine monitors that are very nice.  I would keep the com radios as long as they are functioning O.K.  Upgrade when they fail.  Spend the money on gas.  If you want a nice panel buy it in an existing plane vs. upgrading.  Much less expensive that way.

[ArtVandelay]

You can probably do GFC500 (3 servos), GTN650, G3X, G5, GMA345 and GTX 345….a complete all Garmin panel for $60K-$70K. So that gives you a baseline.

[Pinecone]

27 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

You can probably do GFC500 (3 servos), GTN650, G3X, G5, GMA345 and GTX 345….a complete all Garmin panel for $60K-$70K. So that gives you a baseline.

That is what I would shoot for.  That is a VERY capable panel that will do just about anything.

With the G3X, the 750, while nice, is not really needed.  The GTX-345 gives you ADS-B Out and IN.

[Matthew P]

help us help you, what's your budget and what type of flying do you plan on doing, do you have your IFR rating, if not, are you planning on getting it, etc.

 

[bixmooney]

19 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Pick a good shop, where are you located?

Mid Michigan

[bixmooney]

19 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Pick a good shop, where are you located?

Mid Michigan

Thank you for the responses.   

 

idk what to do or how committed I am to doing a full panel project and when I bought it, I had no idea that an autopilot was such a major thing, kind of foolish.    I had a beech with an stec 55x with alt hold before and thought, I would just buy someone's out from a C model and have it slapped in.    This plane has never had an autopilot or leveler.   

The plane is nice and the best part of it is that it has me back interested in flying.  

It does trim out nicely and is not hard at all to hold altitude and heading.   The autopilot for me was more of a convenience thing and help with focus and tuning frequencies ect.  

I am using foreflight and a larger ipad that i have mounted pretty close in on the passenger yoke which I saw in someone's post on mooneyspace.  The location seems to work for me and 95 % of the time it is just me flying it.  I have a sentry mini and honestly, that is way better than I ever had with my bonanza.   I also have an adsb out tailbeacon. 

I think for now, I may just be happy with my radios sounding more clear and using the atc system more.  

 

Thx.  

 

[Kelpro999]

Impressive, I thought that I had the only panel with Terra push (many times) button select nav/comm. 

[varlajo]

I did an extensive cost analysis and concluded that it is substantially cheaper to get everything done at the same time rather than in phases. 

 

Edited July 10 by varlajo

[Joshua Blackh4t]

Its easy to spend money and have your plane spending months in downtime. Personally I prefer to do actual flying.

So, this is what I have found good. Aera 660 and gdl 39. Lovely, reliable gps with adsb in. Very cheap in aircraft terms.

I'm loving my av 30. But its not essential. Nice to have TAS displayed so I know what the wind is doing. Display is nice at night, but day vfr no.different to steam.

Essential is fuel monitor. Especially for long VFR. When you spend 2 hours under clouds, then another climbing above, you don't know average fuel flow. Any simple fuel totalizer and ff guage WILL change your flying. You'll be better at leaning, will fly further and be more informed about optimal cruising levels.

Everything else is just fluff.

I'm planning on a GNC255 because its easier than writing down all frequencies and turning knobs, but I fly into international airports with a single radio with knobs and no display.

Sure, if you have the money and want your plane to live in the shop, spend to the sky. But you won't go faster or further (except the fuel flow guage).

As for autopilots. Haven't got one, would love one, and a lot of that is for saving me in inadvertent IMC. (I can handle IMC, I just know it can still get to loss of control when looking away for a minute)

[MikeOH]

@Joshua Blackh4t

Nice post!

I love to FLY...nothing wrong with loving to spend money on the latest glass gadgets, but no one should feel that it is really necessary unless that's really your thing.

I would, literally, spend way more to put in 650s, GFC500, GTX345, GI275s...than I paid for my plane  For me, I just don't see why I would do that; I've got a 430W, STEC-30/ALT with GPSS, and a G3 Insight engine monitor.  What am I going to be able to do that I can't already?  Oh, yeah, no coupled approaches for me...oh, well

[BlueSky247]

Joshua - you make some great points but also sound a tad salty.  If people enjoy keeping the avionics shops busy, let em. 

 

Personally, I'm really liking the new safety options that are possible with the latest gen of hardware. Anytime we can give our pax an option to activate a safety net is a big plus in my book. So I'll take that Level button in the gfc500 and the smart glide wired to a separate guarded button on the panel. Maybe someday we'll see the Autoland in the sub-million dollar planes, but I'm thinking they'll see too many complications when that happens.

 

One thing that bugs me about the g5 and gi275, some of those data readouts are mighty small. My current trainer has the g5's and I find the lagginess and need to stop and stare at them for a moment makes it hard to do (imo) an efficient scan pattern.

[Echo]

12 hours ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Its easy to spend money and have your plane spending months in downtime. Personally I prefer to do actual flying.

So, this is what I have found good. Aera 660 and gdl 39. Lovely, reliable gps with adsb in. Very cheap in aircraft terms.

I'm loving my av 30. But its not essential. Nice to have TAS displayed so I know what the wind is doing. Display is nice at night, but day vfr no.different to steam.

Essential is fuel monitor. Especially for long VFR. When you spend 2 hours under clouds, then another climbing above, you don't know average fuel flow. Any simple fuel totalizer and ff guage WILL change your flying. You'll be better at leaning, will fly further and be more informed about optimal cruising levels.

Everything else is just fluff.

I'm planning on a GNC255 because its easier than writing down all frequencies and turning knobs, but I fly into international airports with a single radio with knobs and no display.

Sure, if you have the money and want your plane to live in the shop, spend to the sky. But you won't go faster or further (except the fuel flow guage).

As for autopilots. Haven't got one, would love one, and a lot of that is for saving me in inadvertent IMC. (I can handle IMC, I just know it can still get to loss of control when looking away for a minute)

This.  What is wrong withanAspen?  Big G is not the only way to go.  

[Echo]

9 hours ago, BlueSky247 said:

Joshua - you make some great points but also sound a tad salty.  If people enjoy keeping the avionics shops busy, let em. 

 

Personally, I'm really liking the new safety options that are possible with the latest gen of hardware. Anytime we can give our pax an option to activate a safety net is a big plus in my book. So I'll take that Level button in the gfc500 and the smart glide wired to a separate guarded button on the panel. Maybe someday we'll see the Autoland in the sub-million dollar planes, but I'm thinking they'll see too many complications when that happens.

 

One thing that bugs me about the g5 and gi275, some of those data readouts are mighty small. My current trainer has the g5's and I find the lagginess and need to stop and stare at them for a moment makes it hard to do (imo) an efficient scan pattern.

Call me salty.  Way tomuch money is wastedon avionicsupgrades.

[Echo]

On 6/21/2024 at 2:36 PM, Pinecone said:

That is what I would shoot for.  That is a VERY capable panel that will do just about anything.

With the G3X, the 750, while nice, is not really needed.  The GTX-345 gives you ADS-B Out and IN.

60k to 70k in a vintage Mooney on avionics is bat$&*# crazy.