How to discourage walkers on the runway?

[wombat]

I fly out of a fairly small and quiet airport.    This year there have been a bunch more walkers on the taxiways and runway, including one person and their dog that I didn't see until I was on short final.   While I like that non-pilots are not afraid of the airport, I've encountered at least 5 groups of non-aviation users on the runway and taxiways so far this year and I'm getting worried about safety.

I'm worried that if I bring this up with the city that owns the airport, they'll either close it until further notice, or they'll get a multi-million dollar bid for airport security and try to pass that on to the 30 of us that have hangars there.    We don't actually have a local police force any more and the county sheriff has asked that the people in town don't call for help unless it's critical since the sheriff's office has a lot of area to cover.

Does anyone have any ideas on what can be done to help discourage or prevent non-aviation users from walking themselves and their dogs on the taxiways and runway?

[LANCECASPER]

I live on an airpark and we also have that sometimes. One thing would be to have everyone that taxis, takes-off and lands turn on the runway lights a few minutes ahead of time to let everyone know that there's an airplane getting ready to take-off or land.

[PeteMc]

Do they enter via a road or is the Airport open and they just walk in anywhere?  If they walk in at a more confined area, put up some decent size sings they have to actually walk around that have some official sounding warning. 

AIRPORT RUNWAY, TAXIWAYS AND ADJACENT GRASS AREAS ARE NOT SAFE TO WALK ON. 

THESE SPACES ARE FOR AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS ONLY!

LANDING AIRCRAFT MAY NOT SEE YOU AND CANNOT MANEUVER TO AVOID YOU!!! 

 

Edited April 2, 2024 by PeteMc

[Ibra]

You can plant and fence some parts (near runway edges), grow tall grass around perimeter, then leave it uncut whole year, then plant few windsocks with aircraft sign 

It can’t prevent (unconscious) people who know that aircraft are operating on runway to cross an active runway (at their own risks), however, it will help informing others who care about maximising their life expectancy 

I am not sure how it works in US or WA, however, I think there is no need to bring it to regulators or mayors (you will not like the answer unless you own the land), however, pilots operating around need to be aware (we have a similar arrangements at one small grass airfield nearby, it still does not prevent some hikers, deers, rabbits, foxes…from crossing the runway)

Edited April 2, 2024 by Ibra

[RoundTwo]

As a habitual airport walker with my boy Turbo, carrying an aviation radio is a personal requirement. Maybe posting signage requesting walkers carry at least a receiver would help. There are some VERY cheap options out there, ($35 delivered)

[Planegary]

We had a couple of ladies that had started walking at our airport and had one plane do 2 go-arounds. They thought he was flirting with them and that it was cute. After speaking to them and telling them what was going on , IE they were hard to see and the plane was trying to land and how dangerous it was they understood and quit walking the runway so this story at least has a happy ending

[exM20K]

It’s an ongoing problem at the fly-in community we live in.  Worse than people walking the taxiways are kids in golf carts.  Someone on the board put this sign up.  Dunno if it made any difference, but it was attention-getting.

-dan (again with the upside down iPad photos…..)

[Echo]

April Fools.  Please let this be a joke.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Planegary said:

We had a couple of ladies that had started walking at our airport and had one plane do 2 go-arounds. They thought he was flirting with them and that it was cute. After speaking to them and telling them what was going on , IE they were hard to see and the plane was trying to land and how dangerous it was they understood and quit walking the runway so this story at least has a happy ending

Imagine the narcissism required to believe that a plane that is repeatedly flying down the runway in which you’re walking is a pilot flirting with you.

[FlyingDude]

12 hours ago, wombat said:

walkers on the taxiways and runway

In Michigan we have this.  But that's for animals, obviously.

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/managing-resources/wildlife/wildlife-permits/wildlife-damage-and-nuisance-control-permits

 

[EricJ]

The small field I learned at would have people walk across it occassionally, and also contracted to a local shepherd to graze the grass around the runway.    The sheep stayed off the pavement because there was no grass there, but the sheepdogs would sleep in the middle of the runway because it was warm there.

Usually a low pass would clear people/dogs/whatever.

If it's a constant problem then the previous suggestions make sense with signage, lights, etc.  

[Echo]

I was apparently under the false impression that post 9/11 there were fences and signage at airports.  Every airport I have been to has had a fence and signage.  This includes non-towered small municipal airports.  There have not been issues (except wildlife) regarding entry and "use" by general public for walking because the airport manager would be on this aggressively for the safety and security of all.  Local law enforcement or municipal elected representatives were rungs (plural) up the chain of contacts to end the issue?  I still believe that this can NOT be legitimate and is some kind of a joke.  If real it's about as funny as a case of polio.

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, Echo said:

April Fools.  Please let this be a joke.

the sign?  nope.  it's real.

dan

[Brandt]

Simple solution.  Ask the local Jehovah’s Witnesses to set up an information stand in the driveway coming into the airport.  None shall pass…

[Echo]

Original poster forgot beautiful in addition to small and quiet.  Adjective describes both Twisp Municipal and Metho Valley.  Both of these airports seem to be outside city limits.  Is there just a shortage of paved snow, mud, clear walking areas in the area in the Spring?  I can understand that.  The runways and taxiways are cleared and so "available" for spring fever sunny days?  This is the land of big wide open spaces and rural scenic beauty...clearly based on photos.  You hate to use county resources to handle something like this, but an incident could certainly happen and a taxiway/runway is no place for non-plane related operations.

I came close to shutting down when there were many ultra lites on an Arkansas field (no notam) when I arrived after a two hour flight.  As I taxied into ramp/tie down area there were a LOT of people hanging around on ramp.  A child, (young boy <5) was walking toward me (about 50' away) unattended.  I came to a stop with hand on mixture...about three seconds later an adult came and grabbed him.  He was clueless to the danger of course.

I wish you well in getting a handle on this.  A civil discussion likely won't help, but likely wouldn't hurt either?  I have an ongoing challenge with my dogs in a county (somewhat secluded park).  When entry gate is closed (seasonal during winter) you can walk in.  I have two pointers and this is a great area to excercise them daily.  I have E collars and dogs are trained to return to heel when they encounter others.  Majority of other pet owners don't have control of their dogs and they run over with hackles up and aggressing.  nobody wins if a dog fight ensues.  What to do?  I go a couple hundred yards away from parking and enter at an alternative fence opening.  STILL others dogs will launch running a couple hundred yards...owners yelling and maybe, maybe not coming over to get their dogs.  Eventually their or my dog are going to do something...two bites and your dog is euthenized.  Even when you try not to be that guy others out of ignorance or live free, what can happen inattention will eventually eliminate dogs from being allowed in the valley.  Freedom is great until someone elses results in your having a problem.  Humans.  (shrug)

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Echo said:

I was apparently under the false impression that post 9/11 there were fences and signage at airports.  Every airport I have been to has had a fence and signage.  This includes non-towered small municipal airports.  There have not been issues (except wildlife) regarding entry and "use" by general public for walking because the airport manager would be on this aggressively for the safety and security of all.  Local law enforcement or municipal elected representatives were rungs (plural) up the chain of contacts to end the issue?  I still believe that this can NOT be legitimate and is some kind of a joke.  If real it's about as funny as a case of polio.

Feds only require fences at airports with scheduled air service or military operations. Beyond that, security is decided at the local level.

At a lot of small airports it’s a fine line. You want the community to feel comfortable and welcome, but you don’t want them impeding intended use. 

I’m of the opinion that at small fields without the resources to keep an attendant on duty, it’s best to put up signage and let sleeping dogs lie. 

[Echo]

1 hour ago, exM20K said:

the sign?  nope.  it's real.

dan

No the issue.  I love the sign.

[Echo]

2 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Feds only require fences at airports with scheduled air service or military operations. Beyond that, security is decided at the local level.

At a lot of small airports it’s a fine line. You want the community to feel comfortable and welcome, but you don’t want them impeding intended use. 

I’m of the opinion that at small fields without the resources to keep an attendant on duty, it’s best to put up signage and let sleeping dogs lie. 

Learned something today.  That's a good day.  To original poster: Are there signs?  If no this likely needs to happen with a city ordinance.  This would be a liability exposure as while exposure is clearly obvious to pilots it is NOT to lay general public.  Perhaps city could also identify a preferred area to get steps in that doesn't ahve aircraft exposure?

[FlyingDude]

1 hour ago, Brandt said:

Simple solution.  Ask the local Jehovah’s Witnesses to set up an information stand in the driveway coming into the airport.  None shall pass…

They might have a problem with adding or removing engine oil.

[salty]

This is tangentially related, but I had my plane at the Tampa Bay AirFest this weekend, which is free to the public. I tried to use the situation as a training opportunity, so when a kid grabbed the prop, I would (trying to be relaxed) explain that you should never move the prop on an airplane unless you want it to start, as it is possible that it could. Mostly the message was met well, but one woman got a little upset and asked incredulously "is there fuel in it?". I said of course there is. She responded "Isn't that unsafe" and I responded "not if you don't mess with it", to which, kinda to my surprise, she replied "Good point" and walked away.

And now I have to share my favorite picture from the weekend, a group of cadets taking each others picture with my Chinese airplane.

 

 

And to bring the post back to the thread topic, my point is that maybe stopping and talking to the walkers about how hard it is to see them, what the possible dangers are, and giving them options would help? They might surprise you like the lady in my story did me.

[GeeBee]

50 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Feds only require fences at airports with scheduled air service or military operations. Beyond that, security is decided at the local level.

At a lot of small airports it’s a fine line. You want the community to feel comfortable and welcome, but you don’t want them impeding intended use. 

I’m of the opinion that at small fields without the resources to keep an attendant on duty, it’s best to put up signage and let sleeping dogs lie. 

Nope. TSA required KGVL to put up a fence and cipher controlled gates. No military, no scheduled service. Condition to continue ADAP money.

[dkkim73]

57 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

At a lot of small airports it’s a fine line. You want the community to feel comfortable and welcome, but you don’t want them impeding intended use. 

I'm with Shadrach; there is a PR aspect to be managed. People have a lot of misconceptions about private airplanes, and having a positive interaction might be the thing they remember whenever the local anti-airport forces get going. May be also truly ignorant of procedures and the risk level. 

What someone said about "you may be hard to see" is probably a good point to make. 

[FlyingDude]

20 minutes ago, dkkim73 said:

there is a PR aspect to be managed. People have a lot of misconceptions about private airplanes,

That's a valid point.  Usually, every time my plane ownership gets brought up during casual encounters, people at first look at me with "you don't look that rich" eyes.  Then when I rub it in their face that their Yukon or Explorer costs more than my plane, they ask "Do you trust something that cheap?"  We need to make people love aviation so that they don't consider airports as wasted land or like a landfill.

[PeteMc]

5 hours ago, exM20K said:

(again with the upside down iPad photos…..)

Click on the three dots in the upper right of your message ( ... ) and then Edit.  You should be able to rotate or flip it. 

[PeteMc]

5 hours ago, Planegary said:

We had a couple of ladies that had started walking at our airport and had one plane do 2 go-arounds.

I don't understand why that AIRPLANE keeps coming down to ruin our walk on this nice AIRPORT RUNWAY???....