VFR into IMC

[0TreeLemur]

I learned about this recent unfortunate event from reading an article written by  @Pasturepilot in his new  "Words Aloft"  substack.   Words Aloft author Jeremy King is a flight-passionate Mooney owner and current airline pilot with a broad perspective on aviation.  I highly recommend it.  

Here's the sad part: On Nov. 14, the new owner of a Piper Cherokee flew it VFR into IMC in Florida.  It didn't end well.  The Flightaware track shows it all.  It looks like the pilot kept it aloft in IMC for 30 minutes of sheer terror, ending with a 6000 fpm 290 knot dive, probably in pieces.   Sad.  Perhaps useful for instruction.

Link to flight track here.

[chriscalandro]

He was probably going through checklists on his navigator and got lost. Seems like people here think that’s a major issue (getting lost because you covered your Nav with checklists)

Edited November 19, 2023 by chriscalandro

[Echo]

18 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

He was probably going through checklists on his navigator and got lost. Seems like people here think that’s a major issue (getting lost because you covered your baby with checklists)

Define You.  Ready, and go...

[N201MKTurbo]

I was taught how to do a 180 under the hood during private pilot training. Do they still teach that?

[chriscalandro]

[hammdo]

I created a simplified checklist and back it up later with the full list… right in my view…

Miss, cruise climb, cruise, decent, approach/Gumps

-Don

 

[Sue Bon]

12 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I was taught how to do a 180 under the hood during private pilot training. Do they still teach that?

I wasn't, but the kid was just 21 years old. He was alone in a plane that was new to him.  According to the link, he had to delay his departure to wait for the cloud base to lift from IMC moments before departing. I don't think he had any idea what he was getting himself into. Poor guy. I remember how terrified I was in my first IFR lessons in low clouds with an instructor next to me. I was not at all prepared for how disorienting it is, and how quickly it happens.

[midlifeflyer]

13 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I was taught how to do a 180 under the hood during private pilot training. Do they still teach that?

We teach strategies for inadvertent entry into the clouds, not just the 180, which can be very disorienting, and might be ineffective  And the strategies include those based on equipment in the aircraft.

IMO, two the biggest parts of the problem are

1. Lack of exposure. I don't even mean to actual.  I've done flight reviews with people who have been flying for years in which I've given them hood work for the first time since their checkride. 
2. Too often inadvertent VFR into IMC is the result of a series of bad decisions. It's hard to expect great decisions when the emergency happens. 

 

[hammdo]

Here is the image I used to 'print' and then laminated it myself:

@dkkim73 this is what I used...

-Don

 

 

[AndreiC]

I found out about a month ago that the guy who earlier this year had purchased the house a few hundred feet from me perished in a VFR into IMC accident. (I never got a chance to meet him.) ATP, CFI, pilot for Southwest, former military. Flew his Lancair into the ground in dark night LIFR. (Maybe it's better to call it CFIT?) The weather on that day was LIFR all around the area, I remember it well. After a 5 hour flight from TX, with a stop for refueling in MO, he attempted an approach at his intended destination (3D2), went missed, and diverted to another airport (MTW). About 10 miles north of MTW he hit terrain. He did not fly any kind of approach, just set up for a straight in. How someone as experienced as this would fly in such a reckless manner is completely beyond my understanding. He never talked to ATC, attempted to file a flight plan, asked for any help...

[Sue Bon]

3 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Too often inadvertent VFR into IMC is the result of a series of bad decisions.

I suspect in this case that the kid's enthusiasm for aviation in general (aspiring professional pilot), and desire to fly his new baby in particular, got the best of him.

[Pinecone]

18 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I was taught how to do a 180 under the hood during private pilot training. Do they still teach that?

They are supposed to.  Part 61 requires 3 hours of under the hood training for a PP.

[N201MKTurbo]

56 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

They are supposed to.  Part 61 requires 3 hours of under the hood training for a PP.

Although it was 43 years ago, I thought we did a fair amount of hood time. Mostly at night. We even did an ILS into Phoenix. My instructor said I was boring because I flew too good, he said “let’s see how you do on an ILS”. My only instruction was “keep the needles centered and the speed about 90” seemed pretty easy….

[Pinecone]

I don't know how much intrument time I had for my PP.  I lost my first logbook, and the numbers I carried into the next one, did not have any instrument time logged.  I don't think it was 3 hours.

Did my PP in 1979, so whatever the regs required then.

[N201MKTurbo]

10 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

I don't know how much intrument time I had for my PP.  I lost my first logbook, and the numbers I carried into the next one, did not have any instrument time logged.  I don't think it was 3 hours.

Did my PP in 1979, so whatever the regs required then.

We are about the same. I took my check ride in February of 1980.

[hubcap]

50 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

We are about the same. I took my check ride in February of 1980.

 

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

I don't know how much intrument time I had for my PP.  I lost my first logbook, and the numbers I carried into the next one, did not have any instrument time logged.  I don't think it was 3 hours.

Did my PP in 1979, so whatever the regs required then.

Took my check ride for PPL in September of 1979 and I had 3 hours under the hood and 3 hours of night instruction before I took my check ride.

[MikeOH]

1978 for me and it was 3 hours for hood and 3 hours night

[EricJ]

Did my private check ride in 1977 and had 6.1 night, 3.1 actual, 10.3 under the hood.   I also had 145 hours total and 24 solo.

It looks like I was a slow learner.

I also already knew all the commercial maneuvers, lots of spin training, etc., etc.   

[Shadrach]

34 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Did my private check ride in 1977 and had 6.1 night, 3.1 actual, 10.3 under the hood.   I also had 145 hours total and 24 solo.

It looks like I was a slow learner.

I also already knew all the commercial maneuvers, lots of spin training, etc., etc.   

I took my ride with 40 and change and in hindsight was not really ready. I handled the airplane well but was not comfortable in the least. My discomfort fostered some stupid mistakes. I had to go back the next day to complete the oral.

[Utah20Gflyer]

Although more instrument time or a new auto pilot with a blue level button might seem like good answers to a scenario like this I think ultimately it comes down to ADM.  No matter how well we have trained or how capable our plane is there is always another scenario that will kill us.  Greater training and better equipment might even temp us into more dangerous scenarios than we otherwise would have put ourselves.   
 

Unfortunately ADM is difficult to teach a young individual with little experience in aviation and life in general, who very likely doesn’t have a good understanding of risk.   It isn’t particularly easy to teach it to older individuals either, although it should be.    

I think when you take the limited knowledge of the nature and risks of any particular flight we want to make and add to that the very subjective and emotional nature of the human consciousness  and you have a recipe for bad outcomes.  
 

What I take from this is the following.

1.  We need to be more self aware about our capabilities, our motivations, priorities and be acutely aware of our desire to deceive ourselves so we can ignore information we don’t like.  Essentially we want to deny reality so we can do what we want.  Reality savagely punishes those who reject it.  

2.  Outsourcing decision making to systems or standards that exist outside of ourselves could be very useful in avoiding the problems from shortcomings in section #1.  
 

 

[good2eat]

22 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I was taught how to do a 180 under the hood during private pilot training. Do they still teach that?

Was listening to a podcast the other day with Doug Stewart.  I really like his take on VFR into IMC - it’s much like being lost.

His take is the time to make the 180 is before you get into IMC.

If that didn’t work then:

1. Full power and let the plane climb (mitigate terrain issues).  Plane should climb at the same airspeed you are trimmed for so no need to pull or worry about stalling.

2. Confess - contact ATC

3. Comply - ATC should be able to vector you out of IMC better than we can guess were to go.

4. When making turns, keep bank angle at no more than 10 degrees.

Of course it all goes out the window if you don’t have the ability to communicate or keep the plane wings level.

 

[Pinecone]

Based on others who are similar PP timeframe, I guess I have 3 hours of sim instrument in my PP training.

It might be an artifact of missing paper logbook and then using an early electronic logbook, then converting to SafeLog.

I need to track down my 2nd logbook and make sure the numbers carried forward from the first one correct.

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

Although more instrument time or a new auto pilot with a blue level button might seem like good answers to a scenario like this I think ultimately it comes down to ADM.  No matter how well we have trained or how capable our plane is there is always another scenario that will kill us.  Greater training and better equipment might even temp us into more dangerous scenarios than we otherwise would have put ourselves.   
Unfortunately ADM is difficult to teach a young individual with little experience in aviation and life in general, who very likely doesn’t have a good understanding of risk.   It isn’t particularly easy to teach it to older individuals either, although it should be.    

I think when you take the limited knowledge of the nature and risks of any particular flight we want to make and add to that the very subjective and emotional nature of the human consciousness  and you have a recipe for bad outcomes.  
What I take from this is the following.

1.  We need to be more self aware about our capabilities, our motivations, priorities and be acutely aware of our desire to deceive ourselves so we can ignore information we don’t like.  Essentially we want to deny reality so we can do what we want.  Reality savagely punishes those who reject it.  

2.  Outsourcing decision making to systems or standards that exist outside of ourselves could be very useful in avoiding the problems from shortcomings in section #1.  

"Outsourcing decision making to systems....that exist outside of ourselves could be very useful in avoiding the problems from shortcomings in ....our capabilities,,,"

Are you suggesting that we rely more upon integrated flight automation?

[1980Mooney]

8 hours ago, Andrei Caldararu said:

I found out about a month ago that the guy who earlier this year had purchased the house a few hundred feet from me perished in a VFR into IMC accident. (I never got a chance to meet him.) ATP, CFI, pilot for Southwest, former military. Flew his Lancair into the ground in dark night LIFR. (Maybe it's better to call it CFIT?) The weather on that day was LIFR all around the area, I remember it well. After a 5 hour flight from TX, with a stop for refueling in MO, he attempted an approach at his intended destination (3D2), went missed, and diverted to another airport (MTW). About 10 miles north of MTW he hit terrain. He did not fly any kind of approach, just set up for a straight in. How someone as experienced as this would fly in such a reckless manner is completely beyond my understanding. He never talked to ATC, attempted to file a flight plan, asked for any help...

 

1 hour ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

Although more instrument time or a new auto pilot with a blue level button might seem like good answers to a scenario like this I think ultimately it comes down to ADM.  No matter how well we have trained or how capable our plane is there is always another scenario that will kill us.  Greater training and better equipment might even temp us into more dangerous scenarios than we otherwise would have put ourselves.   
 

With the relentless march of advances in avionics technology, I suspect more pilots fly this way than we realize or want to believe.  He took off in VMC from Grand Prairie and then from Missouri.  Only the take off in Grand Prairie was towered - his stop for fuel and destinations in WI we not - no contact with any flight control required.   When so many GA planes have Synthetic Vision, FSI-B for traffic awareness, perhaps Garmin "Visual Approach Guidance" (which doesn't know if you are flying in VMC or in the clag) I bet it becomes more and more tempting to just fly on without talking to anyone - without committing to a restrictive "IFR" flight plan - and then deal with it as it comes - relying upon the onboard technology. 

This accident pilot has obviously flown with and trusted plenty of fancy and capable avionics.  If he had landed successfully, who would have known or cared?

[Utah20Gflyer]

48 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

"Outsourcing decision making to systems....that exist outside of ourselves could be very useful in avoiding the problems from shortcomings in ....our capabilities,,,"

Are you suggesting that we rely more upon integrated flight automation?

No, I’m referring to things like personal minimums, the IFR system, etc.  

Standards that exist outside of the emotional thought processes that can invade flight planning.   Yes, these same dangerous influences could invade the process of setting personal minimums, but hopefully we do it on a day we aren’t flying and with an experienced pilot who can help shape our standards for the better.  
 

Even if a thought comes from yourself, once you write it down it now exists outside of you.  
 

Automation may help but can also bite you.  I remember an accident report that described a pilot who flew his own jet basically took off, set the auto pilot and let the auto pilot fly him to the destination and then disengaged it on short final.  One day the auto pilot had an issue when the guy was in IMC and he crashed and died.  He never would have been flying in IMC in that jet if he hadn’t had an autopilot to sucker him into that behavior.  
 

Human beings are weird creatures.  As soon as you try to fix a problem for them they invent a new problem.  Basically whack a mole.  
 

Free will is the most beautiful and frustrating thing about human beings.