Servo issue for GFC700

[dkkim73]

Hello All, 

So, I'm the proud new owner of a 2009 M20TN (BTW thanks to all the kind people here on MS who've been generous with advice and time!). The plane is down at the Mooney Factory Service Center, having an annual (out of a pre-buy) and some additional work done (LHS, bigger engine heater, software updates, certs, etc). 

One thing they found when pulling the servos for inspection and torque checks: 2 of the 3 weren't able to be reset within specs (pitch trim and roll).

They are looking into options which might include:

• swapping in used field units
• return/refurb/new from Garmin
• potentially upgrading to the newer model which apparently does not require as-frequent an inspection interval

They said this wasn't common. Which begs the question, has anyone here dealt with the problem? 
 

Thanks for any thoughts,

David

[ZuluZulu]

@TrekLawler

[dkkim73]

Thank you, also got a PM mentioning @TrekLawler and his expertise. I figure everyone's tied up during the holidays but will look forward to any advice. I suppose in some ways this bears on the whole upgrade pathway for G1000/GFCxxx systems, so I'll post back if I learn anything offline. Thanks to all! 

[TrekLawler]

Hello David,

   apologies for not seeing this, I was out of town over the Thanksgiving week and as you indicated in your PM I don't have notices turned on (more on that later).

there are a lot of questions and assumptions I can make from your post, but you know what assuming gets you :-).

we need to first get some basics of the airframe, what system software is it at currently and is the plane WAAS upgraded?

Since this is a 2009 and you mentioned that the servos had to be removed to test, these are the GSM 85 which require testing on a special fixture outside of the plane. if so the dealer should be able to adjust these, if they fall out of tolerance the parts can no longer be purchased and the units needs to be sent in for service under the flat rate repair program. if the plane is needed quickly they can be exchanged through your dealer for the exchange pricing to make the turn around quicker, but the repair process is about 1 week long. As for upgrading, I don't believe this is an option unless Mooney has issued a bulletin which allows this.

 

Just as an FYI, a lot of my notices on the forums are slowly being turned off at this point. I'm in the process of retiring from full time work, Garmin and general aviation effective January 26th. so if there is any questions I'd recommend sending me a PM and I will do my best to get answers as quickly as possible.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, TrekLawler said:

Hello David,

   apologies for not seeing this, I was out of town over the Thanksgiving week and as you indicated in your PM I don't have notices turned on (more on that later).

there are a lot of questions and assumptions I can make from your post, but you know what assuming gets you :-).

we need to first get some basics of the airframe, what system software is it at currently and is the plane WAAS upgraded?

Since this is a 2009 and you mentioned that the servos had to be removed to test, these are the GSM 85 which require testing on a special fixture outside of the plane. if so the dealer should be able to adjust these, if they fall out of tolerance the parts can no longer be purchased and the units needs to be sent in for service under the flat rate repair program. if the plane is needed quickly they can be exchanged through your dealer for the exchange pricing to make the turn around quicker, but the repair process is about 1 week long. As for upgrading, I don't believe this is an option unless Mooney has issued a bulletin which allows this.

 

Just as an FYI, a lot of my notices on the forums are slowly being turned off at this point. I'm in the process of retiring from full time work, Garmin and general aviation effective January 26th. so if there is any questions I'd recommend sending me a PM and I will do my best to get answers as quickly as possible.

Congratulations!  Who should we contact when you retire?

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, TrekLawler said:

Hello David,

   apologies for not seeing this, I was out of town over the Thanksgiving week and as you indicated in your PM I don't have notices turned on (more on that later).

there are a lot of questions and assumptions I can make from your post, but you know what assuming gets you :-).

we need to first get some basics of the airframe, what system software is it at currently and is the plane WAAS upgraded?

Since this is a 2009 and you mentioned that the servos had to be removed to test, these are the GSM 85 which require testing on a special fixture outside of the plane. if so the dealer should be able to adjust these, if they fall out of tolerance the parts can no longer be purchased and the units needs to be sent in for service under the flat rate repair program. if the plane is needed quickly they can be exchanged through your dealer for the exchange pricing to make the turn around quicker, but the repair process is about 1 week long. As for upgrading, I don't believe this is an option unless Mooney has issued a bulletin which allows this.

 

Just as an FYI, a lot of my notices on the forums are slowly being turned off at this point. I'm in the process of retiring from full time work, Garmin and general aviation effective January 26th. so if there is any questions I'd recommend sending me a PM and I will do my best to get answers as quickly as possible.

With all of the people you've helped over the years, you've earned an excellent reputation from Garmin owners. You will be missed. Since people have grown dependent on you, I would suggest going into the witness protection program upon your retirement. . lol 

[dkkim73]

2 hours ago, TrekLawler said:

there are a lot of questions and assumptions I can make from your post, but you know what assuming gets you :-).

we need to first get some basics of the airframe, what system software is it at currently and is the plane WAAS upgraded?

Since this is a 2009 and you mentioned that the servos had to be removed to test, these are the GSM 85 which require testing on a special fixture outside of the plane. if so the dealer should be able to adjust these, if they fall out of tolerance the parts can no longer be purchased and the units needs to be sent in for service under the flat rate repair program. if the plane is needed quickly they can be exchanged through your dealer for the exchange pricing to make the turn around quicker, but the repair process is about 1 week long. As for upgrading, I don't believe this is an option unless Mooney has issued a bulletin which allows this.

Thank you for the detailed reply! 

Yes, the plane is WAAS-enabled (from the factory, so with VNAV), with SVT unlock shortly thereafter. System version was 0401-34, being upgraded to 0401-37 at the Mooney factory service center now. 

Yes, the unit is the GSM 85, the write-up is "Roll and Pitch Trim GFC700 GSM 85 clutch mount failed clutch torque test and adjustment." so exactly as you describe. They list part # 011-00894-09 to fix. So I am thinking it is the repair/exchange as you describe (going to get an update soon as they had been waiting to speak with Garmin going into the holiday). 

Hopefully that helps clarify your assumptions, which I think are correct. As for the upgrade possibility, it sounds like it's possible but requires a bulletin/approval? Someone suggested it would likely be expensive and not worth "the squeeze". 

David

PS. And congrats on retirement!

[TrekLawler]

1 hour ago, dkkim73 said:

Thank you for the detailed reply! 

Yes, the plane is WAAS-enabled (from the factory, so with VNAV), with SVT unlock shortly thereafter. System version was 0401-34, being upgraded to 0401-37 at the Mooney factory service center now. 

Yes, the unit is the GSM 85, the write-up is "Roll and Pitch Trim GFC700 GSM 85 clutch mount failed clutch torque test and adjustment." so exactly as you describe. They list part # 011-00894-09 to fix. So I am thinking it is the repair/exchange as you describe (going to get an update soon as they had been waiting to speak with Garmin going into the holiday). 

Hopefully that helps clarify your assumptions, which I think are correct. As for the upgrade possibility, it sounds like it's possible but requires a bulletin/approval? Someone suggested it would likely be expensive and not worth "the squeeze". 

David

PS. And congrats on retirement!

Thanks David,

   I looked through what bulletins I have from Mooney and don't see anything that outlines any kind of upgrade path to the GSM 86 as well as spoke with our OEM director here at Garmin and he's not aware of any offering from Mooney to upgrade these. So it appears the best option will be to send them in for service.

 

@Fly Boomer and @LANCECASPER, thank you for the kind words. the social media operations have gotten so vast in the last 14 years since I first start responding on them that its extremely difficult with all of the new forums and groups on Facebook as an example it is easily a full time job. we're working on some options for this going forward here at Garmin and if these are not in place before my last day the next option will be to send any inquiries to our team at aviation.support@garmin.com. but as the date gets closer I will most certainly provide everyone on the social media sights some options.

[Pinecone]

ARRRGGHHHH.  You leave right in the middle of my avionics upgrade, so will not be around to deal with any issues.

HOW DARE YOU?????

Maybe you can semi retire and just do the online stuff part time????

Enjoy your retirement.  I am enjoying my semi retirement.

[blaine beaven]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

ARRRGGHHHH.  You leave right in the middle of my avionics upgrade, so will not be around to deal with any issues.

HOW DARE YOU?????

Maybe you can semi retire and just do the online stuff part time????

Enjoy your retirement.  I am enjoying my semi retirement.

I was surprised no one has offered to hire him, fee for service, to do this job, but then remembered we are on the Mooney (CB) site 

[dkkim73]

54 minutes ago, blaine beaven said:

I was surprised no one has offered to hire him, fee for service, to do this job, but then remembered we are on the Mooney (CB) site 

I would be surprised if there were not significant consultant opportunities for anyone with such focal domain knowledge and a helpful instinct. 

 

6 hours ago, TrekLawler said:

Thanks David,

   I looked through what bulletins I have from Mooney and don't see anything that outlines any kind of upgrade path to the GSM 86 as well as spoke with our OEM director here at Garmin and he's not aware of any offering from Mooney to upgrade these. So it appears the best option will be to send them in for service.

Thank you! Much obliged for clarifying that hanging question. 

David

[Danb]

Hey David I this past weekend lost my pitch trim servo, figuring I have a 3-5000 expense, I got lucky my avionics man found a loose pin on the servo plus the other pin was missing unbelievable he found the pin in the back belly of the Acclaim. He said it’s his second Mooney that had this issue, changed the captan pins good to go. At his mercy he could have said it was a bad servo and nailed me for a major repair. So many things can go wrong or occur  gotta be diligent luckily I lost it landing at home airport. 
D

[carusoam]

Long live Trek!

He always has the answers…

The hard part, you had to know how to find him….  

 

Best regards,

-a-

[dkkim73]

On 3/26/2024 at 6:46 AM, Danb said:

Hey David I this past weekend lost my pitch trim servo, figuring I have a 3-5000 expense, I got lucky my avionics man found a loose pin on the servo plus the other pin was missing unbelievable he found the pin in the back belly of the Acclaim. He said it’s his second Mooney that had this issue, changed the captan pins good to go. At his mercy he could have said it was a bad servo and nailed me for a major repair. So many things can go wrong or occur  gotta be diligent luckily I lost it landing at home airport. 
D

Wow; glad it worked out so well! Good eyes on his part. 

Out of curiosity, how did the problem present inflight and how did you diagnose it? I am very impressed by the GFC700 but also increasingly aware of how important it is to be mindful of the autopilot to avoid getting bitten. 

I realize I never posted the resolution. We ended up using some lightly-used units that had come off an engineering plane at Mooney; they were kind enough to warranty them, and it saved some money (for the seller but a good thing still) and more importantly time. And on the plus side, both the avionics guy and I viewed the light use as a positive, that they had been ops-checked. 

The other option would have been the flat-rate Garmin rebuild or exchange service. 

[Danb]

Luckily it occurred during landing I was already trim up, when I taxi back I generally neutralize my trim well it wouldn’t work, but the trim wheel did. The brackets holding the servos on are weak, my avionics guy works on bigger planes jets and turbo props his other encounter with an Acclaim was the roll servo also came loose, once he got home he said self any chance a different one worked loose his hunch paid off. Obviously a weak point in the system. I’ve had numerous scary encounters with auto pilot runaway trim or worse but with an STEC a/p. Gotta stay on top of the game.

D