M20D wing damage

[ptwffz]

Hello gang,

Any advise would be appreciated. Unfortunately my uninsured plane suffered leading edge left wing damage due to a microburst in Mesa, AZ. The tail tie-down broke and my left wing impacted the vertical beam support for the covered tie down. I received one quote of 15k to re-skin the section (quote just from photos). That was sticker shock. I found an E model wing I can buy to possibly reuse the skin from that wing. Not sure if that's feasible.  I'm also wondering if there's any rib damage since I don't know how close the rib is to the leading edge skin. 

Can't the damaged section be cut out and a "patch" of aluminum be riveted in? Is a complete re-skin of that section required?  

It was only uninsured because I fell on tough times. My bad. 

Joe

 

Photos attached.

[Ned Gravel]

That is what it cost me to replace the outer port wingtip and first skin inboard of that. 

[ptwffz]

Ok. Thanks for the reply. So maybe the price isn't too out of line. 

[PT20J]

The price sounds reasonable. You can call any MSC and get the price on the skin, but they are pretty inexpensive as airplane parts go and certainly not worth buying a wing. Mostly it's just a lot of labor removing the old skin, installing the new skin and prep and paint. If any ribs were damaged that will increase the amount of work and the cost. 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, ptwffz said:

Hello gang,

Any advise would be appreciated. Unfortunately my uninsured plane suffered leading edge left wing damage due to a microburst in Mesa, AZ. The tail tie-down broke and my left wing impacted the vertical beam support for the covered tie down. I received one quote of 15k to re-skin the section (quote just from photos). That was sticker shock. I found an E model wing I can buy to possibly reuse the skin from that wing. Not sure if that's feasible.  I'm also wondering if there's any rib damage since I don't know how close the rib is to the leading edge skin. 

Can't the damaged section be cut out and a "patch" of aluminum be riveted in? Is a complete re-skin of that section required?  

It was only uninsured because I fell on tough times. My bad. 

Joe

 

Photos attached.

Sorry to hear this.  I’d definitely send Dmax some pictures and ask for his inputs. They have fixed this type of thing and have access to Mooney parts new and used.

[PT20J]

Depending on if there is any hidden damage, it is probably easy to fix it up enough to get a ferry permit. I helped do that on a twin Beech that hit a sign when it ran off the runway after a brake failed. We got some sheet aluminum and pop riveted it over the leading edge to reform the airfoil shape.

[KSMooniac]

Don Maxwell's crew is great for this sort of repair.  Even if they cannot do it due to schedule/distance/logistics, I'm sure Don can tell you exactly what will be required to do it correctly.  You can very likely get a replacement skin from the factory for modest cost, but as mentioned above, the real bulk of the cost will be the labor to drill rivets out and fit the new skin.  It sounds frightening, but this absolutely should not be a fatal blow to your plane!

Regarding the insurance situation... did your tie down (on the tail of the plane) break, or the chain from the airport, or the anchor in the ground?  If it was the chain or anchor, would the airport's insurance cover it, or do they make you sign away any potential liability?

[Utah20Gflyer]

Are you handy with tools?  Know any A&Ps that might be willing to supervise work?   At minimum you could do the drilling and removal of rivets and damaged sheet metal and then just pay for the replacement work.  

[ptwffz]

1 hour ago, KSMooniac said:

Don Maxwell's crew is great for this sort of repair.  Even if they cannot do it due to schedule/distance/logistics, I'm sure Don can tell you exactly what will be required to do it correctly.  You can very likely get a replacement skin from the factory for modest cost, but as mentioned above, the real bulk of the cost will be the labor to drill rivets out and fit the new skin.  It sounds frightening, but this absolutely should not be a fatal blow to your plane!

Regarding the insurance situation... did your tie down (on the tail of the plane) break, or the chain from the airport, or the anchor in the ground?  If it was the chain or anchor, would the airport's insurance cover it, or do they make you sign away any potential liability?

The old rusty chain was supplied by the airport. I took photos of it. Of course they said all claims need to go through insurance but that my have been just passing the buck.

[ptwffz]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

Sorry to hear this.  I’d definitely send Dmax some pictures and ask for his inputs. They have fixed this type of thing and have access to Mooney parts new and used.

Will look into it.

[ptwffz]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

Depending on if there is any hidden damage, it is probably easy to fix it up enough to get a ferry permit. I helped do that on a twin Beech that hit a sign when it ran off the runway after a brake failed. We go some sheet aluminum and pop riveted it over the leading edge to reform the airfoil shape.

Appreciate the advice.

[ptwffz]

41 minutes ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

Are you handy with tools?  Know any A&Ps that might be willing to supervise work?   At minimum you could do the drilling and removal of rivets and damaged sheet metal and then just pay for the replacement work.  

I do know an A&P.  I left him a message. His availability is hit n miss. A WWII P-51 pilot used to do my annuals but he's passed years ago. Was Mooney factory trained and wealth of knowledge. 

[ptwffz]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

Sorry to hear this.  I’d definitely send Dmax some pictures and ask for his inputs. They have fixed this type of thing and have access to Mooney parts new and used.

Dmax seems to be the general consensus. I'll reach out to them.

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

Regarding the insurance situation... did your tie down (on the tail of the plane) break, or the chain from the airport, or the anchor in the ground?  If it was the chain or anchor, would the airport's insurance cover it, or do they make you sign away any potential liability?

 

1 hour ago, ptwffz said:

The old rusty chain was supplied by the airport. I took photos of it. Of course they said all claims need to go through insurance but that my have been just passing the buck.

It sounds like you are at Falcon Field where they unfortunately had the Sept. micro-burst.  If so, that is a City of Mesa owned covered tie down.

And also if so your tie-down lease already releases the City of Mesa from any liability whatsoever.  That is why they said to go through your own insurance.  This is typical with most hangars and tie-downs.  In fact most require the Tenant/Lessee to carry insurance and name the City or Hangar Owner as an "additional insured".

https://www.falconfieldairport.com/home/showpublisheddocument/14800/635780112878670000

7. INDEMNIFICATION. To the fullest extent permitted by law, TENANT agrees to release CITY, its officials,
departments, employees, and agents, for, from, and against any and all loss, injury, damage to persons or
property, or other liability of any nature occasioned by, but not limited to, fire, theft, vandalism, rain, flood,
windstorm, hail, earthquake, collision or from any other cause, whether such cause be a direct, indirect, or
merely a contributing factor in producing said loss, injury, damage or liability, except for any injuries or
damages resulting from negligent acts or omissions of the CITY, its officials, departments, employees, or
agents. All aircraft and other personal property stored at the Airport shall be stored at the TENANT’s sole risk.
CITY assumes no liability for loss or injury to persons or property while TENANT is using the Airport
facilities.
 

Edited November 8, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[N201MKTurbo]

BTW, you can patch that. Mooney doesn’t give much guidance on wing repairs. Some would say you cannot do anything, and others would say you can do anything you want. 
 

Not much different than patching the hole left by removing a radar, which I’ve seen done.

[ptwffz]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

BTW, you can patch that. Mooney doesn’t give much guidance on wing repairs. Some would say you cannot do anything, and others would say you can do anything you want. 
 

Not much different than patching the hole left by removing a radar, which I’ve seen done.

That's what I was thinking as well. I don't care about aesthetcs. As long as it's safe. 

[ptwffz]

6 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

It sounds like you are at Falcon Field where they unfortunately had the Sept. micro-burst.  If so, that is a City of Mesa owned covered tie down.

And also if so your tie-down lease already releases the City of Mesa from any liability whatsoever.  That is why they said to go through your own insurance.  This is typical with most hangars and tie-downs.  In fact most require the Tenant/Lessee to carry insurance and name the City or Hangar Owner as an "additional insured".

https://www.falconfieldairport.com/home/showpublisheddocument/14800/635780112878670000

7. INDEMNIFICATION. To the fullest extent permitted by law, TENANT agrees to release CITY, its officials,
departments, employees, and agents, for, from, and against any and all loss, injury, damage to persons or
property, or other liability of any nature occasioned by, but not limited to, fire, theft, vandalism, rain, flood,
windstorm, hail, earthquake, collision or from any other cause, whether such cause be a direct, indirect, or
merely a contributing factor in producing said loss, injury, damage or liability, except for any injuries or
damages resulting from negligent acts or omissions of the CITY, its officials, departments, employees, or
agents. All aircraft and other personal property stored at the Airport shall be stored at the TENANT’s sole risk.
CITY assumes no liability for loss or injury to persons or property while TENANT is using the Airport
facilities.
 

Yes, I'm at FFZ. 

[Shadrach]

55 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

BTW, you can patch that. Mooney doesn’t give much guidance on wing repairs. Some would say you cannot do anything, and others would say you can do anything you want. 
Not much different than patching the hole left by removing a radar, which I’ve seen done.

Very little guidance indeed. In the mid 60s my dad owned a C model. He snagged a guy-wire with one of the wings while taxing out to begin a multi-week XC. The mechanic on the field pulled the dent and removed the creases to the extent needed to bring the airfoil back into profile. He then shaped a sheet of 2024 over the wound and affixed it with blind rivets. By my father’s recollection it took lees than 2 hours and he was on his way just slightly behind schedule. He put ~20hrs on that temporary repair and noticed no adverse effects (though he might have in a stall). Plane was repaired after he returned with factory sheet metal. I’m pretty sure that no one would do a temporary repair like that today. 

[Ron McBride]

Can a wing mounted landing light be installed in that area, instead of replacing the skin?

[ptwffz]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Very little guidance indeed. In the mid 60s my dad owned a C model. He snagged a guy-wire with one of the wings while taxing out to begin a multi-week XC. The mechanic on the field pulled the dent and removed the creases to the extent needed to bring the airfoil back into profile. He then shaped a sheet of 2024 over the wound and affixed it with blind rivets. By my father’s recollection it took lees than 2 hours and he was on his way just slightly behind schedule. He put ~20hrs on that temporary repair and noticed no adverse effects (though he might have in a stall). Plane was repaired after he returned with factory sheet metal. I’m pretty sure that no one would do a temporary repair like that today. 

I miss the "old school" methods. By the book can be such an inconvenience! lol.

[ptwffz]

27 minutes ago, Ron McBride said:

Can a wing mounted landing light be installed in that area, instead of replacing the skin?

I like the way you think. Probably cheaper than a 15k re-skin. 

[EricJ]

42 minutes ago, Ron McBride said:

Can a wing mounted landing light be installed in that area, instead of replacing the skin?

It'd probably be more work and paperwork than just fixing the damage.

[Shadrach]

12 minutes ago, ptwffz said:

I miss the "old school" methods. By the book can be such an inconvenience! lol.

Cando get it done attitude has its upsides. Unfortunately, the GA fatality rate was much higher then as well. The pendulum swings back and fourth over the right balance.

[Shadrach]

@ptwffz  Is the paint actually damaged or is that paint transfer from the beam?  I have been amazed at what paintless dent repair professionals are able to do.  I have seen miraculous results in both aluminum and steel.

[ptwffz]

3 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

@ptwffz  Is the paint actually damaged or is that paint transfer from the beam?  I have been amazed at what paintless dent repair professionals are able to do.  I have seen miraculous results in both aluminum and steel.

The paint on the leading edge is damaged. I'd try to pull the dents but not sure if the wing would be structurally sound. I guess I could get a look by removing some inspenction panels.