Pinecone Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 Then only put CamGuard in the oil for the other ones. CamGuard doesn't have any friction modifiers, just corrosion control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 4 hours ago, toto said: This is a chrome cylinder.. I have no prior experience with chrome break-in, but so far it doesn't seem that much different from steel. Oil consumption was high for the first 2-3 hours, but it has gotten much closer to normal in the past 3 hours or so. I guess the irony is that chrome shouldn't have problems with corrosion - it's the other three cylinders (and the rest of the engine) I'm worried about As a related anecdote, my 3 month avionics refresh in 2015 was immediately followed by need to rework 2 cylinders at annual. I took it to the avionics shop with fresh Aeroshell W100 + Camguard in the engine. If I had to do it again I would probably use a dehydration system of some kind also. The heavier weight oil also in principle runs off the components more slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 6 hours ago, Pinecone said: Then only put CamGuard in the oil for the other ones. CamGuard doesn't have any friction modifiers, just corrosion control. Interesting. I always thought there was some sort of anti-scuff in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 That's TPP found in the plus aeroshell oil. It's actually acid that eats a thin layer of corrosion on the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 23 minutes ago, jetdriven said: That's TPP found in the plus aeroshell oil. It's actually acid that eats a thin layer of corrosion on the parts. Good. So CamGuard by itself is purely an anti-corrosive with no anti-scuff properties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCarlton Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 On 9/2/2023 at 1:21 PM, toto said: I’m breaking in a new cylinder.. I’ve now crossed the 10-hour mark running at high power using plain Phillips XC. I’m planning to do an oil change, and I’m not sure how long after the cylinder break-in starts before adding Camguard is a good idea. The plane will be in the avionics shop for a while starting soon, and I don’t like the idea of an extended period sitting without Camguard, but I don’t want to harm the break-in by adding Camguard prematurely. Is 10 hours long enough? Or should I keep running plain XC? Why not just use Phillips Victory and keep it simple? I scanned the thread. Curious why no one mentioned it. That’s what I’m using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, DCarlton said: Why not just use Phillips Victory and keep it simple? I scanned the thread. Curious why no one mentioned it. That’s what I’m using. Phillips Victory might be great as an every day oil, but I’m basically trying to stick with no scuff additives. I’m continuing to use straight XC, but I’d like to add CamGuard for the corrosion protection. The cylinder is over ten hours now, but I’m still trying to be careful about what goes in the oil - to avoid anything that might compromise the break in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCarlton Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, toto said: Phillips Victory might be great as an every day oil, but I’m basically trying to stick with no scuff additives. I’m continuing to use straight XC, but I’d like to add CamGuard for the corrosion protection. The cylinder is over ten hours now, but I’m still trying to be careful about what goes in the oil - to avoid anything that might compromise the break in. I’m no expert but I thought the additive in Victory met the LYC recommended specs and was very similar to Camguard. Camguard may have additional additives. I’d have to do the research all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, DCarlton said: I’m no expert but I thought the additive in Victory met the LYC recommended specs and was very similar to Camguard. Camguard may have additional additives. I’d have to do the research all over again. I’m no oil expert, but LW-16702 is specifically an anti-scuff additive and is required for certain engines, but not for my IO-360. https://www.lycoming.com/content/oil-and-your-engine 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 On 9/10/2023 at 1:45 AM, DCarlton said: Why not just use Phillips Victory and keep it simple? I scanned the thread. Curious why no one mentioned it. That’s what I’m using. Victory has the Lycoming anti scuff additive. NOT the anti-corrision of Cam Guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneyflyfast Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 I’ve used Phillips XC and Camguard in my J model since overhaul 600+ hours ago and I have had several stuck valves. Sometimes they were frozen and had to be driven out. When the guides were reamed it was carbon that was the problem. The engine has been run LOP exclusively. In the latest oil change the filter had a lot of chunks of carbon in it. Oil and filter have been changed every 25 hours. The owner of a cylinder shop who has been repairing cylinders day in and day out for probably 40 or 50 years told me that Camguard was the culprit. True this is anecdotal evidence but it carries some weight with me considering my personal experience and who it came from. I am in annual now and I am going to AS W 100 and no Camguard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 I have owned a Mooney for 40 years (next July) and 5000 hours. I have mostly run AS W100. I have never had any corrosion/spalling issues. I don't have a problem to solve. Granted, I live in Arizona and we don't have corrosion around here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 On 9/10/2023 at 1:45 AM, DCarlton said: Why not just use Phillips Victory and keep it simple? I scanned the thread. Curious why no one mentioned it. That’s what I’m using. I don’t think people read the threads, question is should I put camguard in and that’s all that’s looked at, camguard If you look, this oil is specifically what he wants, is used as a break-in oil etc https://phillips66lubricants.com/product/aviation-anti-rust-oil/ What does it not do that he wants done? It’s not even expensive or hard to get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted September 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: I don’t think people read the threads, question is should I put camguard in and that’s all that’s looked at, camguard If you look, this oil is specifically what he wants, is used as a break-in oil etc https://phillips66lubricants.com/product/aviation-anti-rust-oil/ What does it not do that he wants done? It’s not even expensive or hard to get. Well - basically, I'm running XC, and I'm just trying to figure out whether I can/should dump a few ounces of CamGuard in there for corrosion protection. I know that I could drain the oil and pickle it, but we're only talking about a few weeks. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze, that's a completely fine answer - I really just wanted to know whether CamGuard was going to have a harmful effect on a cylinder with about 15 hours on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzeleski Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, mooneyflyfast said: I’ve used Phillips XC and Camguard in my J model since overhaul 600+ hours ago and I have had several stuck valves. Sometimes they were frozen and had to be driven out. When the guides were reamed it was carbon that was the problem. The engine has been run LOP exclusively. In the latest oil change the filter had a lot of chunks of carbon in it. Oil and filter have been changed every 25 hours. The owner of a cylinder shop who has been repairing cylinders day in and day out for probably 40 or 50 years told me that Camguard was the culprit. True this is anecdotal evidence but it carries some weight with me considering my personal experience and who it came from. I am in annual now and I am going to AS W 100 and no Camguard. I stopped running camguard. Had two stuck valves and one starting to show issues, one that required a complete cylinder replacement due to a bad seat that couldnt be lapped. All of which started after using camguard. Once the second valve guide was reamed I stopped using camguard and my issues have since disappeared. My engine was a low time engine as well at around 300 hours SMOH. All of these valves had to be hammered out they were so tight. I fly ~100 hours a year and I usually dont have more then a few weeks of non use. As you said anecdotal evidence but I stopped using it and dont worry about engine corrosion considering I fly it enough. I use Phillips XC multi weight as im up north where it gets too cold for single weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCarlton Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 53 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: I don’t think people read the threads, question is should I put camguard in and that’s all that’s looked at, camguard If you look, this oil is specifically what he wants, is used as a break-in oil etc https://phillips66lubricants.com/product/aviation-anti-rust-oil/ What does it not do that he wants done? It’s not even expensive or hard to get. I read it but didn't remember the recommended break in period. At 10 hours, I assumed break in was complete. How many hours would you use this oil before you switched to something else? How long is an "extended period". It's not clear on the Phillips web site. Someone needs to publish a spreadsheet of oils, MIL-SPECS, additives and recommended uses to help us get beyond tribal knowledge, marketing and smoke and mirrors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzeleski Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, DCarlton said: I read it but didn't remember the recommended break in period. At 10 hours, I assumed break in was complete. How many hours would you use this oil before you switched to something else? It's not clear on the Phillips web site. Someone needs to publish a spreadsheet of oils, MIL-SPECS, additives and recommended uses to help get past marketing and smoke and mirrors. https://www.lycoming.com/content/hard-facts-about-engine-break "The first careful consideration for engine run-in is the oil to be used. The latest revision of Lycoming Service Instruction 1014 should be consulted for this information. The basic rule which applies to most normally aspirated Lycoming piston engines is simple: use straight mineral oil of the proper viscosity for the first fifty hours or until oil consumption stabilizes. Then switch to ashless dispersant (AD) oil." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneyflyfast Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 This is my latest filter running 25-50 XC and Camguard. About 40 hours on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCarlton Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, mooneyflyfast said: This is my latest filter running 25-50 XC and Camguard. About 40 hours on it And the verdict is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 4 hours ago, mooneyflyfast said: This is my latest filter running 25-50 XC and Camguard. About 40 hours on it Jeff, You might consider buying an oil analysis kit from Aircraft Spruce and sending in your filter material to AvLab and seeing what they determine it is for sure. It may be mostly carbon, but if there is even a trace of anything else I'd want to know. Lance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Boomer Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 11 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: Jeff, You might consider buying an oil analysis kit from Aircraft Spruce and sending in your filter material to AvLab and seeing what they determine it is for sure. Lance How about Blackstone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said: How about Blackstone? Sure that would work too. I think AvLab is a little less expensive and turns around the results sooner though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammdo Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 I have almost 200 hours on the engine since I bought the plane from David (Sabremech) running Victory and Camguard. I’m not seeing that kind of carbon in the filter (virtually none really). Change oil 25-30 hours. That is interesting to see and I’ll keep an eye on that on mine… -Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 3 hours ago, mooneyflyfast said: This is my latest filter running 25-50 XC and Camguard. About 40 hours on it Ew. Does a magnet pick any of that up? I'm assuming not, since it looks like carbon. I've not seen that much carbon debris on a filter before, or at least not in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneyflyfast Posted September 12, 2023 Report Share Posted September 12, 2023 48 minutes ago, EricJ said: Ew. Does a magnet pick any of that up? I'm assuming not, since it looks like carbon. I've not seen that much carbon debris on a filter before, or at least not in a long time. Not metalic. It’s carbon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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