TT/Aero 100 Autopilot News?

[cliffy]

Had an interesting conversation at OSH that said that Duncan (they hold the STC form the Mooney install) just received 14 complete flat pack units for shipment

I tried to find out just what models the STC covers an even my 'source" can't get the info.

Seems Duncan is silent on this so far.

Also had no idea on follow on kits just that the first are going to those on the wait list. 

I "may" get a call back with the included models 

My source couldn't even get a copy of the STC Just marketing stuff. 

Duncan holds the STC but BK makes the unit  

I wonder how this is going to work out?

Was sent to Mid-Continent for more info and they also have no info 

They said they could sell 50 of them right now if they could get them

 

[EricJ]

AS still shows "indefinite backorder".

Having the Mooney STC through Duncan but every other Aerocruz STC through BK seems a bit worrisome to me.

[LANCECASPER]

All of this just proves that BK doesn't have the resources or the know-how on how to complete this.

 

Trio might have been a better option if we wouldn't have scared them away a few years ago when they were on Mooneyspace. 

 

https://www.thestcgroupllc.com/pages/pro-pilot-autopilot-by-trio-avionics

 

I understand that they also have an interface for Aspen G5 and Dynon.  

 

There's a page where you can submit your interest in an STC( https://www.thestcgroupllc.com/pages/stc-autopilot-interest-list).

Every vintage Mooney owner who doesn't want to spend $20,000 plus whatever else is necessary on the GFC500 should fill out that form. I have a friend who has the Trio on a Piper and it flies on rails. 

There has been interest in the past: 

 

 

[EricJ]

lol...I just noticed that on AS every other instance of the Aerocruze 100 says, "No Stock, available for order", but the Mooney says, "Special Order, indefinite backorder". 

I do not find this confidence inspiring.

[cliffy]

Lets not confuse the TRIO autopilot -  With the AEROcruze 100  ( old TT)

https://www.thestcgroupllc.com/      -     TRIO

 

https://www.bendixking.com/en/products/ai/autopilots-and-indicators/aerocruze-100  -   Aerocruze

 

 

[LANCECASPER]

40 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Lets not confuse the TRIO autopilot -  With the AEROcruze 100  ( old TT)

https://www.thestcgroupllc.com/      -     TRIO

 

https://www.bendixking.com/en/products/ai/autopilots-and-indicators/aerocruze-100  -   Aerocruze

My post was just to point out that frustrated people waiting for the Bendix King Aerocruze 100 should contact Trio and let them know if they are interested. If Trio sees a lot of interest, they might be able to make this happen before Bendix King. Handing it over to Duncan is typical of Bendix King's inability to complete anything on their own. And in your case Trio's Dynon interface should be out this quarter. They already have an Aspen and G5 interface.

[cliffy]

10 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

My post was just to point out that frustrated people waiting for the Bendix King Aerocruze 100 should contact Trio and let them know if they are interested. If Trio sees a lot of interest, they might be able to make this happen before Bendix King. Handing it over to Duncan is typical of Bendix King's inability to complete anything on their own. And in your case Trio's Dynon interface should be out this quarter. They already have an Aspen and G5 interface.

I agree completely with you BUT back when Trio wanted $10.000 and an airplane to do the  first one. Maybe that has changed I don't know

I'd buy one of those tomorrow if it was available.

BTW There was no one visiting  the BK booth at OSH compared to Garmin and others. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by cliffy

[hammdo]

Even for the KX200 slide in for the KX155/165?

interesting…

-Don

[McMooney]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

I agree completely with you BUT back when Trio wanted $10.000 and an airplane to do the  first one. Maybe that has changed I don't know

I'd buy one of those tomorrow if it was available.

BTW There was no one visiting  the BK booth at OSH compared to Garmin and others. 

 as an owner i didn't understand this. why would i ever pay you for equip and installation and then let you fly my plane for hundreds of hours, so you can make more money.  I bet if anything breaks, I as the owner have to pay for it.

while i'd like the option of the Trio, that just doesn't make sense

 

[cliffy]

Every time I went by it was basically empty of people looking

[Joshua Blackh4t]

6 hours ago, McMooney said:

 as an owner i didn't understand this. why would i ever pay you for equip and installation and then let you fly my plane for hundreds of hours, so you can make more money.  I bet if anything breaks, I as the owner have to pay for it.

while i'd like the option of the Trio, that just doesn't make sense

 

Well, someone has to pay. And I doubt they will make all that much out of it.

Maybe we could renegotiate. Everyone who wants one will chip in to pay the owner of the test plane. But we want an equivalent discount on our autopilots.

Also, if its my plane I want to be the pilot.

I wonder how much test flying is involved? I mean, its all pretty self explainatory.

One hour normal ops check

2 hrs abnormal ops check

Then just checking for any stress cracks for 100 hrs?

 

[Echo]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:41 AM, LANCECASPER said:

All of this just proves that BK doesn't have the resources or the know-how on how to complete this.

 

Trio might have been a better option if we wouldn't have scared them away a few years ago when they were on Mooneyspace. 

 

https://www.thestcgroupllc.com/pages/pro-pilot-autopilot-by-trio-avionics

 

I understand that they also have an interface for Aspen G5 and Dynon.  

 

There's a page where you can submit your interest in an STC( https://www.thestcgroupllc.com/pages/stc-autopilot-interest-list).

Every vintage Mooney owner who doesn't want to spend $20,000 plus whatever else is necessary on the GFC500 should fill out that form. I have a friend who has the Trio on a Piper and it flies on rails. 

There has been interest in the past: 

 

 

Aviation Consumer just had an article about Aspen and Trio partnering today.  Eleven certs, but didn't include what manufacturers and models would be supported.

[FoxMike]

A couple of years ago I piloted a couple of flights of an Ovation that Duncan was using to install an Aerocruz 100 for flight testing.  I never heard if they got the STC approved.  

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, FoxMike said:

A couple of years ago I piloted a couple of flights of an Ovation that Duncan was using to install an Aerocruz 100 for flight testing.  I never heard if they got the STC approved.  

https://www.duncanaviation.aero/news/duncan-aviation-has-stc-to-install-bendixking-aerocruze-100-autopilot-in-mooney-m20s

[cliffy]

I was told at OSH that the Mooney STC was about done BUT that person had no idea which models it covered,

I was also told they had just received the first 14 units (all flat packs) but also didn't know who they were going to

[jetdriven]

If the whole Aerocruise thing wasn't so sad, it would be funny.... but it's not funny

[EricJ]

It sounds like a few are about to make it out into the wild.    I'll be interested to see installation/operation experience as well as any support/interaction experience with Duncan.

 

[BasicPlaneGuy]

Sorry if I'm reviving a dead thread here - but I assume anyone else with interest is still waiting on this like I am.

Has anyone heard ang updates on the Aerocruze AP for Mooney M20's?

I ordered one in September from Gulf Coast Avionics. I spoke with them today and wad told they're now on indefinite back order. When I ordered it they had estimated 6 months. 

So, I called and spoke with a tech support rep for Bendix King to ask some other installation questions and brought up the backorder. He told me the rumor is Duncan in preparing the STC did not include all the appropriate part drawing to cover the different M20 models, so they're having to go back and amend the STC. 

Does anyone know if there is any validity to this? If so, I need to try to get my deposit back....

[EricJ]

8 minutes ago, BasicPlaneGuy said:

Sorry if I'm reviving a dead thread here - but I assume anyone else with interest is still waiting on this like I am.

Has anyone heard ang updates on the Aerocruze AP for Mooney M20's?

I ordered one in September from Gulf Coast Avionics. I spoke with them today and wad told they're now on indefinite back order. When I ordered it they had estimated 6 months. 

So, I called and spoke with a tech support rep for Bendix King to ask some other installation questions and brought up the backorder. He told me the rumor is Duncan in preparing the STC did not include all the appropriate part drawing to cover the different M20 models, so they're having to go back and amend the STC. 

Does anyone know if there is any validity to this? If so, I need to try to get my deposit back....

Yes, there've been a number of them installed but a few issues cropped up during installation on some airplanes.   My understanding is that's what's being addressed now.   I have one on order as well.   The ones that were installed have been getting good reviews.

[cliffy]

Somethings can not be explained- Not including the correct drawings in an STC application?

Unbelievable that someone in the aviation business doesn't know how to submit an STC application.

Sorry to be harsh but 50 years dealing with the FAA gives me a  biased point of view. 

This ain't rocket science we're dealing with here. 

[Fly Boomer]

51 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Somethings can not be explained- Not including the correct drawings in an STC application?

Unbelievable that someone in the aviation business doesn't know how to submit an STC application.

Sorry to be harsh but 50 years dealing with the FAA gives me a  biased point of view. 

This ain't rocket science we're dealing with here. 

Most companies, aviation or otherwise, don't have or want people with 50 years of experience.  A huge percentage of American workers are forced out or down by age 50 -- forget 50 years of experience.  Retiring at 65 or 70 with a continuous upward trajectory of responsibility and compensation is a myth for most workers.  Okay, rant over.

[Hank]

11 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

A huge percentage of American workers are forced out or down by age 50 -- forget 50 years of experience.  Retiring at 65 or 70 with a continuous upward trajectory of responsibility and compensation is a myth for most workers.

Hello from the unicorn. I'm retiring soon, because Corporate is closing our plant. I'll be here, shipping equipment to other locations, until it's all gone.

Then I'll have more time to fly! Not 50, only 35 years in the business, seven companies, eight locations. The upward trajectory was neither constant nor even, but my current position is the highest. I stalled out for a while at the Senior Engineer level before reaching Principal Engineer and now Manager.

I really don’t want to stay for 50 years, not even 40.

But i would like to have either a functional TruTrak or Dynon AP installed in my C, to replace the current Brittain AccuFlight and AccuTrak systems!

C'mon, somebody get one to market!! 

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Hello from the unicorn. I'm retiring soon, because Corporate is closing our plant. I'll be here, shipping equipment to other locations, until it's all gone.

Then I'll have more time to fly! Not 50, only 35 years in the business, seven companies, eight locations. The upward trajectory was neither constant nor even, but my current position is the highest. I stalled out for a while at the Senior Engineer level before reaching Principal Engineer and now Manager.

I really don’t want to stay for 50 years, not even 40.

But i would like to have either a functional TruTrak or Dynon AP installed in my C, to replace the current Brittain AccuFlight and AccuTrak systems!

C'mon, somebody get one to market!! 

It will happen. Can I get right of first refusal on those antiquated Brittain systems?  

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Then I'll have more time to fly! Not 50, only 35 years in the business, seven companies, eight locations. The upward trajectory was neither constant nor even, but my current position is the highest. I stalled out for a while at the Senior Engineer level before reaching Principal Engineer and now Manager.

Good to hear.  I suspect that the "Engineer" title helped with that successful career.  Ending up at the highest level is, as you say, becoming a unicorn event, but certainly something you can take to the bank.  Similar to the days when people received a defined benefit pension, and their employer didn't find a way to drain the assets before the employee got what was promised.  In some ways, the current paradigm, which puts more responsibility on the worker, can be more reliable, but there are still ways to lose the value of your savings.

[EricJ]

14 hours ago, cliffy said:

Somethings can not be explained- Not including the correct drawings in an STC application?

Unbelievable that someone in the aviation business doesn't know how to submit an STC application.

Sorry to be harsh but 50 years dealing with the FAA gives me a  biased point of view. 

This ain't rocket science we're dealing with here. 

They had drawings, but on deployment there were installation issues that revealed some unanticipated installation differences across models and/or serial numbers.   My understanding is that the drawings (and evidently additional bracketry) are to accomodate the discovered differences.

Remember that Garmin had a bunch of trouble deploying their autopilot on Mooneys, too.   Seems to come with the territory.