Time Building Offer in Eastern NC

[eman1200]

22 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

They both log pic time at half cost. 

lol no, they don't.

[eman1200]

Just now, eman1200 said:

lol no, they don't.

well, maybe they do, but not legally.

[RobertGary1]

12 hours ago, eman1200 said:

well, maybe they do, but not legally.

Actually the faa has written about this. Yes they do. One seat can serve as pic where multiple people are required. The other seat is sole manipulator and under the hood (hence the multiple required). Very common and they way most of the big schools like atp do time building.  

[eman1200]

Actually the faa has written about this. Yes they do. One seat can serve as pic where multiple people are required. The other seat is sole manipulator and under the hood (hence the multiple required). Very common and they way most of the big schools like atp do time building.  

He never said anything about being under the hood. He said he wanted to build time while someone else paid half the hourly rate.

[RobertGary1]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:49 PM, Pinecone said:

Except (e)(1)(iii) - When the pilot, except for a holder of a sport or recreational pilot certificate, acts as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted

Yes.  It isn’t common in the Mooney other than under the hood. It’s not a blanket log pic anytime you’re pic 

[PilotX]

12 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

To be fair, he said "two pilots." When you log as a CFI, it's based on your CFI certificate, not  any if your pilot certificates. 

I am not a pilot if I am instructing? 

12 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Exactly.

A CFI instructing is another case.

Well you are not a pilot if you are CFIing. Tell that to the student - yer on your own lil fellah.

[midlifeflyer]

13 minutes ago, PilotX said:

I am not a pilot if I am instructing? 

Well you are not a pilot if you are CFIing. Tell that to the student - yer on your own lil fellah.

Yes, and we even need a commercial pilot certificate . But there are a whole bunch of rules where CFIs are treated as a special case.

We don't need "pilot" landing currency when instructing (our trainees don't need it either), We can log approaches our trainees fly in actual, even if they are rated and current and don't need us for anything other than an endorsement.  Even a required non-flying SIC monitoring flown by the captain can't log it  for currency . We don't need medical certificates at all unless we are acting in a pilot/required crew capacity, let alone the second class associated with commercial "pilot" privileges (like instructing). They even had to amend the flight review rules to allow a CFI checkride to count because it is not a "pilot" checkride. Those are just the ones I can come up with off the top of my head with a pen after dinner drink  in my hand,

If the FAA is making those kinds of distinctions between pilot privileges and limitations and CFI privileges and limitations, I think it's fair for us to do that too. 
 

 

[PilotX]

8 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

 

If the FAA is making those kinds of distinctions between pilot privileges and limitations and CFI privileges and limitations, I think it's fair for us to do that too. 
 

 

That I am always "current" is the best thing going. Of course my personal minimums are a bit higher. 

Sorry for hijacking the thread OP. If I was there I would split time with you.

[FlyingDude]

2 pilots can't just fly a single-pilot plane together for a $100 hamburger and both log the flight.  If they take turns acting as PIC, then they split the 0.1 hour increments.  I concur that CFI, the captain in a multi-crew plane etc. concurrently log the hours.

Right now, if the OP were looking for paying pax (non-pilots who just want to fly), he'd be considered holding out which FAA can obliterate you with.  They crack down on this.  I've seen flyers at local airports saying "I'm planning on going to XXX on this date, would you mind giving me a ride?" Of course this could be some naive resident looking for a fast ride, but a cynical person might think that the feds are fishing (or hunting more likely)...  

If OP got contacted by people who were truly decided to travel to the same destinations as the OP, then he can request the prorate share, which is fuel, oil, landing fees, etc.  Nothing for the engine reserve, nothing for the maintenance, nothing for hangar, insurance, etc.  If he leased it back to an FBO, then the FBO would factor everything in and bill an hourly rate.  In that case, he could take people (who had common purpose) and at the check-out, people could split the bill.

Now I'm parroting a tax attorney whom I contacted when I had the naive intention of using my plane for work and requesting reimbursement (which got vehemently denied btw): if you give instruction in your plane or want to deduct costs for work, then you set up a simple LLC that owns the plane, save the receipts for everthing that year, depreciate the plane at 13% a year, divide the total expense by your tach hours (or hobbs hours) and that's your hourly rate.  

Maybe the OP is a CFI who is willing to give instruction in his plane or should narrow down his search to CFIs...

My 1c...

 

[201er]

1 hour ago, FlyingDude said:

2 pilots can't just fly a single-pilot plane together for a $100 hamburger and both log the flight.  If they take turns acting as PIC, then they split the 0.1 hour increments.

Common misconception, but that’s not how it works. You don’t necessarily log PIC by acting as PIC. Might want to review 61.51e

[FlyingDude]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

61.51e

It's here: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-61/subpart-A/section-61.51

Could you  please point to me the paragraph and subparagraph which authorizes 2 private pilots or 2 commercial pilots with no instructor rating flying a mooney under part 91 to both log PIC? I fail at this. Thank you.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, FlyingDude said:

It's here: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-61/subpart-A/section-61.51

Could you  please point to me the paragraph and subparagraph which authorizes 2 private pilots or 2 commercial pilots with no instructor rating flying a mooney under part 91 to both log PIC? I fail at this. Thank you.

Sure. See the highlighted parts below. #1 is a pilot flying under the hood; #2 is the safety pilot sitting in the other seat. With prior agreement, the Safety Pilot is acting as Pilot In Command, since his presence is required by regulation when the Pilot Flying is wearing a vision-limiting device.

[Pinecone]

16 hours ago, PilotX said:

I am not a pilot if I am instructing? 

Well you are not a pilot if you are CFIing. Tell that to the student - yer on your own lil fellah.

You have two certificates. One as a Commercial Pilot or ATP and one as a Flight Instructor.

When you are instructing, you are operating on your Flight Instruction Certificate, not your Pilot Certificate.

This is why you can instruct with Basid Med or 3rd Class, because you are being paid to instruct, not to fly.

[FlyingDude]

14 minutes ago, Hank said:

#1 is a pilot flying under the hood; #2 is the safety pilot sitting in the other seat.

Marvelous.  So what you just listed is a special case that does not comprise of the entirety of flying.  I have never contested that, and as a matter of fact, this does not actually contradict what I said.  

For #2, do we all agree that Mooneys are single-pilot aircraft and except for some special cases like "one pilot under the hood + safety pilot", CFI training, only one person logs PIC?  Out of all the hours you've logged in your Mooneys, how many of them fall under those?  In my 400+ Mooney hours, ~2 with a safety pilot, <10 doing IPCs (under hood), <10 doing flight reviews.  I fail to imagine the OP wanting to do 100hrs under the hood, but I won't speak for him.

For #1, do we all agree that only one person can be the "sole manipulator of the controls" at a time?  Because that happens to be the definition of "sole".  In that case, they can swap controls, but can't log those minutes concurrently.  

 

[PilotX]

30 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

For #2, do we all agree that Mooneys are single-pilot aircraft and except for some special cases like "one pilot under the hood + safety pilot", CFI training, only one person logs PIC?  Out of all the hours you've logged in your Mooneys, how many of them fall under those?  In my 400+ Mooney hours, ~2 with a safety pilot, <10 doing IPCs (under hood), <10 doing flight reviews.  I fail to imagine the OP wanting to do 100hrs under the hood, but I won't speak for him.

I logged plenty of safety pilot time and time under the hood. It is loggable time and valuable to somebody with the goal of flying and getting paid for it someday, unless you are independently wealthy. I am merely independently handsome.

[eman1200]

OP said nothing about hood time.  he never asked for a safety pilot for practice approaches.  these random CFI/hood time/whatever examples are useless when someone says "you sit right seat, pay me for half the flight, and log pic the entire flight".  I see it all the time on the carolina facebook groups.  this has nothing to do with hood time/safety piloting/cfi'ing.

[Hank]

33 minutes ago, eman1200 said:

OP said . . . "you sit right seat, pay me for half the flight, and log pic the entire flight". 

I reread the OP, he didn't say this. He offered to split time with another pilot. Nothing wrong with two pilots in a plane, one flying from A to B, the other flying back to A.

That keeps ome pilot from paying for the entire trip, or getting a hotel to return the next day. Also gives both pilots some company on the trip, and a second head to bounce ideas off of. I enjoy flying solo, but it's more enjoyable to fly with someone else.

[FlyingDude]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Nothing wrong with two pilots in a plane, one flying from A to B, the other flying back to A.

People at my training facility used to do that a lot in Italy, both during training and afterwards. You get to see destinations way farther than where your wallet could take you alone.

[eman1200]

I reread the OP, he didn't say this. He offered to split time with another pilot. Nothing wrong with two pilots in a plane, one flying from A to B, the other flying back to A.
That keeps ome pilot from paying for the entire trip, or getting a hotel to return the next day. Also gives both pilots some company on the trip, and a second head to bounce ideas off of. I enjoy flying solo, but it's more enjoyable to fly with someone else.

lol ok hank.

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, Hank said:

I reread the OP, he didn't say this. He offered to split time with another pilot. Nothing wrong with two pilots in a plane, one flying from A to B, the other flying back to A.

That keeps ome pilot from paying for the entire trip, or getting a hotel to return the next day. Also gives both pilots some company on the trip, and a second head to bounce ideas off of. I enjoy flying solo, but it's more enjoyable to fly with someone else.

Yes, sharing expenses like that lessens the cost of that flight, all the other things you say, and more.

But absent a two logging at the same time scenario, it doesn't lessen the cost of building flight time (the title of the thread). Just spreads it out so it takes longer.

[Pinecone]

Since the safety pilot/hood time, both log PIC is common, I assumed that the OP was planning on doing that.

I try to get 1.5 - 2 hours under the hood each month, shooting a few approaches.  Keeps the rust knocked down, gets the airplane in the air, and keeps me legally current.

[midlifeflyer]

5 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Since the safety pilot/hood time, both log PIC is common, I assumed that the OP was planning on doing that.

I try to get 1.5 - 2 hours under the hood each month, shooting a few approaches.  Keeps the rust knocked down, gets the airplane in the air, and keeps me legally current.

I have been assuming the same thing since multiple logging is the only way to save total  building time cost.  AFAIK, safety pilot and instruction are the only ways to do that in a Mooney, and it definitely did not sound like an offer to instruct  

Of course, that, in turn, assumes @USNA12 understands the logging rules and arithmetic and is trying to minimize the amount of time it takes.

[Pinecone]

2 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Of course, that, in turn, assumes @USNA12 understands the logging rules and arithmetic and is trying to minimize the amount of time it takes.

However, based on his user name, I am not sure he understands how to read.

Said by someone who grew up in a USN household, NOT USNA, and I was USAF.

 

[midlifeflyer]

3 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

After three pages of discussion that he mostly did not participate in, I am the only one who thinks the only way the OP’s inquiry makes sense is if his intention is to find someone else who is willing to log the same time he logs and to split the costs down the middle?

Since your post immediately follows a few which say the same thing (and there are others elsewhere in all 3 pages of the thread), you are obviously not the only one. 
 

[PilotX]

22 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Since your post immediately follows a few which say the same thing (and there are others elsewhere in all 3 pages of the thread), you are obviously not the only one. 
 

I hijacked the thread to an extent, I mean I'm not even in NC, but if the OP wants to fly out here and pick me up I will give him some incredibly mediocre dual.