Additional Shock Absorber on Nose Wheel

[D-EDDN]

Hi there,

I'm new in this forum

I'm from Germany and my dad and I own and fly a Mooney M20C.

I was just wondering if anybody knows about these additional shock absorbers as shown in the picture. I watched a video on youtube and there I saw this on a Mark 21 but i couldn't find anything about them in the Web. Maybe those would be good for soft field operations with the Mooney?

 

Greetings from Germany

 

D-EDDN

[EricJ]

They seem to not do much but add weight, so they're nearly always removed.   It's pretty rare to see one still installed.

[D-EDDN]

Thank you Eric!

I just found some other discussions about them in this forum. Some say that it may be beneficial for grass runways.

We land on grass sometimes but we always have a bad feeling doing it.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, D-EDDN said:

I'm from Germany and my dad and I own and fly a Mooney M20C.

Welcome to MooneySpace.  Lovely that you and your father are into flying at the same time.

I have never seen a shock that appears to dampen the vertical motion.  Our gear does not have much vertical travel, so I would not expect much from a device designed to dampen a nearly non-existent motion. 

[Fly Boomer]

4 minutes ago, D-EDDN said:

Thank you Eric!

I just found some other discussions about them in this forum. Some say that it may be beneficial for grass runways.

We land on grass sometimes but we always have a bad feeling doing it.

See if there are photographs associated with those discussions.  My sometimes feeble memory recalls that the shocks were mounted horizontally to dampen shimmy.

Your instincts on grass are good, but not for lack of the shock absorber.  The concern is that, because of the geometry, dropping into a small hole or depression with the nose landing gear can result in a propeller strike.  That said, many M20Cs do operate off grass.  The mid-body and long-body airplanes are less likely to have success. 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, D-EDDN said:

Hi there,

I'm new in this forum

I'm from Germany and my dad and I own and fly a Mooney M20C.

I was just wondering if anybody knows about these additional shock absorbers as shown in the picture. I watched a video on youtube and there I saw this on a Mark 21 but i couldn't find anything about them in the Web. Maybe those would be good for soft field operations with the Mooney?

 

Greetings from Germany

 

D-EDDN

 

I fly my C to grass strips, as long as it's in good condition. I also know other C-model owners who are based at grass strips. Just be careful, and taxi with full Up Elevator.

Look up piperpainter's video's on youtube--NO, I do not fly my M20-C like he does, or to places as rough as he goes. But it should ease your worries about going to good grass runways.

[Fly Boomer]

19 minutes ago, D-EDDN said:

Thank you Eric!

I just found some other discussions about them in this forum. Some say that it may be beneficial for grass runways.

We land on grass sometimes but we always have a bad feeling doing it.

I retract everything I said.  Here is a diagram that shows it

 

 

 

[D-EDDN]

10 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I have never seen a shock that appears to dampen the vertical motion.  Our gear does not have much vertical travel, so I would not expect much from a device designed to dampen a nearly non-existent motion. 

Well that's true. I just had a little hope to ease the conscience while flying to grass strips. In Germany/Europe many small airports only have grass runways so we are limited in the number of destinations.

 

9 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Your instincts on grass are good, but not for lack of the shock absorber.  The concern is that, because of the geometry, dropping into a small hole or depression with the nose landing gear can result in a propeller strike.  That said, many M20Cs do operate off grass.  The mid-body and long-body airplanes are less likely to have success. 

Okay I thought the impact on the structure as well as the fuel cell sealing are also are limiting as well.

[D-EDDN]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

I fly my C to grass strips, as long as it's in good condition. I also know other C-model owners who are based at grass strips. Just be careful, and taxi with full Up Elevator.

Look up piperpainter's video's on youtube--NO, I do not fly my M20-C like he does, or to places as rough as he goes. But it should ease your worries about going to good grass runways

Thank you I'll look it up.

Yes we do it as well when we know the places. But the only way to know is to fly there  

[D-EDDN]

4 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I retract everything I said.  Here is a diagram that shows it

 

 

 

Thank you. That looks like the shock in the picture. I wonder if there is a place to buy such a damper without going bankrupt.

[Fly Boomer]

58 minutes ago, D-EDDN said:

Thank you. That looks like the shock in the picture. I wonder if there is a place to buy such a damper without going bankrupt.

Might find someone here who has removed theirs, but getting it from Mooney is likely to be prohibitively expensive.

[Vance Harral]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

and taxi with full Up Elevator.

I see this advice pretty frequently when people mention being concerned about prop strikes in Mooneys.  I'm not inclined to "correct" it, because it's good advice for nosewheel airplanes in general, and it certainly makes a non-trivial difference in a Cessna or other aircraft with an oleo strut on the nose gear.  With an oleo strut, the amount of force required at the tail to raise the nose a couple of inches is only a few pounds.

In my airplane - an M20F - at rest, the nose gear doughnuts are hardly compressed at all.  If I exert significant force on the tail, I might get them to expand an eighth of an inch or so, theoretically gaining an addition eighth inch of prop clearance.  But holding full up elevator at normal taxi speeds won't generate enough force at the tail to do so.  If I exert tremendous force on the tail, I can of course lift the nose wheel off the ground.  But that would only gain ground clearance if I taxi at takeoff speed.

So... within our partnership, we tell each other to taxi with full up elevator by all means, because it's good muscle memory.  But we also tell each other not to have any illusion that it actually increases ground clearance at the nose and reduces the likelihood of a prop strike.  There's just not enough force at the tail exerted by full up elevator at taxi speeds to make any difference.

Short and/or mid-bodies may be different, I'd be interested to hear opinions from others on this.

[PT20J]

Mooneys are pretty nose heavy. When we weighed my M20J , it had 639 lbs on the nose wheel. I've never noticed that taxiing with up elevator does much except make my arm tired from fighting the trim bungies.

[Yetti]

I believe there is a Mooney SB to remove them

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, D-EDDN said:

Thank you Eric!

I just found some other discussions about them in this forum. Some say that it may be beneficial for grass runways.

We land on grass sometimes but we always have a bad feeling doing it.

I land on grass without worry. Gear maintenance is far more important than the dampener. I took mine off when we installed an overhauled nose gear assembly as there was no provision to mount it on the new gear.  I still have the strut in my hangar and it still functions. I can’t imagine that it did not smooth out compression and rebound.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, D-EDDN said:

Thank you. That looks like the shock in the picture. I wonder if there is a place to buy such a damper without going bankrupt.

From the Mooney factory, here is the kit for removal of the shock absorber

[FlyingDude]

I was told that the logic behind pulling the yoke back (elevator up) on grass fields is to make the nose lighter to prevent the nose gear from getting stuck in mud or a little pothole. Of course the speeds are low but the prop generates enough wind for some discernible effect. Also, in grass fields one is supposed to not stop but keep rolling during taxi and the roll out onto the taxiway. I’ve followed this instruction, because I saw mud or puddles at the ends of runways at taxiway junctions so many times. One’s also not supposed to use brakes for steering, because that puts more weight on the nose, risking getting it stuck. … I used to enjoy grass field landings with cessnas and arrows.  Landed my mooney on grass, too. It was rougher than a cessna but not really spine-breaking.

[Shadrach]

8 hours ago, D-EDDN said:

Thank you. That looks like the shock in the picture. I wonder if there is a place to buy such a damper without going bankrupt.

I am happy to give you my old dampener, complete with hardware for the cost of shipping.

It appears to be in good shape with no visible leaks and was functional the last time I tested it. I’ll post a few images tomorrow.

You will need to ensure that your current nose gear assembly has the bosses present to mount the dampener. The newer gear assemblies do not have bosses which was the reason I could not install the dampener on my overhaul/exchanged unit.

[Marauder]

I don’t recall who from Mooney told me this at one of the MAPA Homecoming events back in the 1990s, but their explanation was it was an attempt to minimize porpoising effect by landing on the nose wheel.


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[D-EDDN]

5 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I am happy to give you my old dampener, complete with hardware for the cost of shipping.

It appears to be in good shape with no visible leaks and was functional the last time I tested it. I’ll post a few images tomorrow.

You will need to ensure that your current nose gear assembly has the bosses present to mount the dampener. The newer gear assemblies do not have bosses which was the reason I could not install the dampener on my overhaul/exchanged unit.

Wow thank you! I'll have a look if we have the bosses and get back to you.

[D-EDDN]

Thanks to all of you for your answers!

 

[takair]

5 hours ago, Marauder said:

I don’t recall who from Mooney told me this at one of the MAPA Homecoming events back in the 1990s, but their explanation was it was an attempt to minimize porpoising effect by landing on the nose wheel.


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I find that when taxing on bumpy grass or pavement and the nose starts bouncing, a healthy dose of up elevator softens the oscillations.  Maybe it’s in my head, but I still do it routinely, even at my paved home airport, where there are some aggravating bumps.  On grass I tend to taxi with up elevator to prevent the oscillations from starting, between that and just the right amount of power, it seems like it keeps things in check.  Short body E.  Perhaps the short airplanes with heavy engine are more likely to respond?  

[Mooneymite]

I operated my C off of grass for 24 years with the nose gear shock in place.  I never had a porpoise-event, but thought it was just due to my superlative piloting..., but maybe that shock was compensating for some less than perfect landings?  

[Marauder]

I operated my C off of grass for 24 years with the nose gear shock in place.  I never had a porpoise-event, but thought it was just due to my superlative piloting..., but maybe that shock was compensating for some less than perfect landings?  

Was this one of your better takeoffs Gus?

This Mooney has the nose strut on it.

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[A64Pilot]

On 10/27/2022 at 7:26 AM, takair said:

I find that when taxing on bumpy grass or pavement and the nose starts bouncing, a healthy dose of up elevator softens the oscillations.  Maybe it’s in my head, but I still do it routinely, even at my paved home airport, where there are some aggravating bumps.  On grass I tend to taxi with up elevator to prevent the oscillations from starting, between that and just the right amount of power, it seems like it keeps things in check.  Short body E.  Perhaps the short airplanes with heavy engine are more likely to respond?  

This is exactly what the shock was for in my opinion, there are a couple places on my grass strip, specifically where it transitions from pavement to grass that if you have any speed it will get the nose bouncing, there are bumps pretty close together there and the rubber donuts are springs, not dampeners. So I taxi through there slow now of course but the first time was worrying.

Keeping the nose as light as possible on any grass field is a good idea in my opinion, first our props are close to the ground, second we are a little nose heavy, and third the nose wheel is significantly smaller than the mains and is much more likely to sink in at any soft spot, and sometimes there are soft spots