How Much ATC For Mooney Pilots

[201er]

How often are you talking to ATC? How often do you make a flight without talking to ATC at all?

Part 2: how much flying do you do IFR even in absolute VMC?

Edited April 30, 2022 by 201er

[RobertGary1]

Try to always talk to atc. Hitting another airplane is my worst fear. 

[201er]

For real cross country flying (not the 50nm nonsense), I’m probably IFR 80% of the time and with ATC 99% of the time. Two reasons for not being IFR are inconvenient routing in VMC or strictly avoiding weather/terrain VFR.

For local flying (pretty much any time I’m not packing a bag, even if it’s more than 50nm), I’m VFR 95% of the time. Unless it’s IMC and I gotta go, it’s too inconvenient to do IFR from uncontrolled airport under NY Bravo. Probably taking advisories 80% of the time flying local. Sometimes the distance is too short or there just isn’t much going on so I occasionally don’t take advisories.

Point is, I love the freedom but even better to have an extra set of eyes for safety.

Edited April 30, 2022 by 201er

[Ned Gravel]

In US airspace, only fly IFR.  Wx makes no difference. I want the guarantee of a second set of eyes to provide traffic separation. More than one instance of a cowboy not talking to anyone but more than willing to trade paint with me. 
 

Last time was in 2011 on our way to the FISK arrival. Tfc was picked up by Green Bay Approach but almost too late.  Never again. 
 

Not saying it will not happen in Canadian airspace, but with more space and fewer a/c, it is much less likely. In local controlled airspace, I have filed VFR, but that is a rare exception.  Even in Canada, normally only fly IFR.  

[Will.iam]

I’m with 201er on this. Used to fly with dad rarely talking to atc but we live on an uncontrolled airpark even when i started flying myself i flew without an IFR flight plan as I wasn’t instrument rated. Now that ADS-B is widely available it helps alot around the pattern and hamburger runs just because the flight is so short. Better to be listening on pattern freq than atc. But flying past that or taking bags i talk to ATC and usually file IFR until they vector me too much then will just go with VFR flight following. 

[PeteMc]

For most of my local flights (50-300 miles) I don't typically talk to ATC.  But if I'm doing a X-US flight or 500+ mile flight, I typically file IFR regardless of the Wx.

The second set of eyes and already being in contact with ATC if something came up was the primary reason.  But also high on the list was not having to deal with airspace and finding out if MOAs were in use.  Especially on flights to the south or out west.  In the NYC area for the day trips the radar coverage is pretty much down to the surface and easy to get someone on Guard if needed.

 

[cliffy]

Not ALL traffic is reported to you by ATC  so the "second set of eyes" has limitations also

ADSB has been a big help BUT it too doesn't show all traffic.

I went Orlando to Santa Fe NM last year at 1500 AGL and only used the radio when I was at an airport with a tower. 

Didn't feel in jeopardy at any time as I look outside all the time and not at 5 TV screens 

I guess I've just had enough of the cacophony of radio noise after 55 years of working as a pilot.  JMO  YMMV 

[201er]

8 hours ago, cliffy said:

Not ALL traffic is reported to you by ATC  so the "second set of eyes" has limitations also

Not just traffic. Terrain, airspace, altitude, someone aware of your last known location, even just someone to tell you that you’re doing something stupid!

For instance pointing out wrong altitude for VFR.

[HIghpockets]

My aerodrome  is in Class C airspace so I'm always talking to ATC. The PA/NY/NJ sky is crazy busy wiith military, cargo, commercial and general aviation aircraft. My flying is either done IFR for long trips or  with flight following for local missions. I've been listening to the "Opposing Bases" podcast which does a great job of demystifying ATC.

[McMooney]

99% of the time.  Either IFR for trips or Flight Following for puttering about.

The Houston area is too busy to be flying about silent, at least for me 8).

[rbp]

the hosts of Opposing Bases recommend using FF always. Not only does ADS-B not show you all the traffic they see, but they also have weather radar. Furthermore, if you're cruising along VFR not talking to them, they will see you on the scope and be vectoring other traffic around you. If you're flying near a arrival "gate" or an approach IAF, or on the arrival or departure path of a Charlie or Delta, you're impeding other traffic. The reason you don't see this traffic on your ADS-B display is because they have predicted the conflict a dozen miles away, and have already given the other planes they ARE talking to vectors around you.

Talk to ATC. 

https://www.opposingbases.com/tag/flightfollowing/

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by rbp

[hubcap]

I fly IFR about 99% of the time. My home base is almost under the KC Bravo and we are always going cross-country. The only exceptions are maintenance flights or something of that nature.

[RobertGary1]

A lot of the reason I’ll go vfr is because the ifr mea’s are well into the teens here. 

[Wildhorsetrail]

ATC rarely. Nearest controlled airport is 60 miles away. Airspace can be a little busy in certain areas but ATC wouldn't be able to pick up half anyway due to mountainous terrain all around.

Sent from my SM-A326U1 using Tapatalk

[eman1200]

It depends.

[gmonnig]

It sounds weird but on a lot of flights I choose not to talk to ATC for a couple reasons. Mainly because I am an air traffic controller at a Center. I am immersed in ATC up to 60hrs a week and when I’m flying, I just don’t want to deal with controllers. I monitor guard (listen to all the idiots meowing or sayin Let’s go Brandon) and since I have all the Freqs in a 300mile radius memorized, I do listen in. Obviously IMC or going into areas with complex airspace, I’ll file IFR. Controllers can be a big help but only 5-10% are pilots. You’d be extremely lucky to get one of those people in an emergency. 

[201er]

2 minutes ago, gmonnig said:

It sounds weird but on a lot of flights I choose not to talk to ATC for a couple reasons. Mainly because I am an air traffic controller at a Center. I am immersed in ATC up to 60hrs a week and when I’m flying, I just don’t want to deal with controllers.

Hmm... in that case I'd imagine you'd wanna get your money's worth!

And payback at coworkers

[gmonnig]

10 minutes ago, 201er said:

Hmm... in that case I'd imagine you'd wanna get your money's worth!

And payback at coworkers

Oh, I’ve threatened 6 ILS approaches, with vectors to many of my coworkers! 

[PaulM]

Other than local flights, I will file and fly IFR unless I know that the controllers are going to be unreasonable with my route.    They no longer send me to LAAYK for everything, but are still problematic about getting from south of NYC to boston.  Where we know there is the 5000' corridor at JFK.   Publish the IFR though routes and honor them.  

I did just fly down to southern Florida, and I have generally figured out how to file a route without getting moved by Orlando.  I still haven't figured out how to finesse RSW.  but on the way back, I knew that RSW would send me out of the way, so I just left VFR climbed to 7500 direct GNV, Direct.  sailing over all the Class C and D space on the way.  I listened to ATC, but didn't talk to them.     The second leg was direct PXT, direct 1N7.    Due to the restricted space around PXT I talked to them and couldn't get flight following at 7500.. it wasn't PXT's airspace, and wasn't center's either.   I tried to pick up center closer to Wilmington, but was told to stand by, and they never returned another call...  Normally PHL would snake me up the west side and drop my route very low.   this day I just sailed right over at 7500.   

[Mooneymite]

An IFR check-in is a lot quicker than asking for flight following and I've never been refused service.  The strip already has all my info.  However if routing becomes onerous, I'll cancel IFR and revert to VFR flight following.

Filing an IFR with Fltplan.com is super fast/easy.

[GMBrown]

Flight following out of KRAL is easy.  When I have ATIS and I call ready to taxi, I request FF to KFLG and in 5 secs they come back with clearance to taxi to active runway and a freq, altitude, and squawk.  When they turn me loose after take off, So Cal is ready for me and I'm on my way.  Couldn't be easier.  Nice being able to get FF before I get in the air.  Return trip from KFLG, not as easy.  The tower tells me to pick it up in the air and after cleared to take off, I never hear from them again.

[1964-M20E]

Except for local fun flights I usually am talking to ATC most of the time IFR sometimes flight following.

[bradp]

We just had a pilot controller forum.  The radar guys (Wilmington, Raleigh, Greensboro represented) *all* really want us talking to them whenever possible.  Especially in the era of ADS/B they don’t like when two ac are self vectoring. They say that talking to at least one and preferably both aircraft helps them immensely with their SA and flows. 

[Hank]

47 minutes ago, bradp said:

 The radar guys . . . don’t like when two ac are self vectoring.

Huh. I self-vector every flight, whether I talk to ATC or not. Even IFR, they usually either give me "cleared as filed" or eventually tell me "resume own navigation."

[rbp]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:11 AM, PaulM said:

problematic about getting from south of NYC to boston

I have filed the TEC route that goes through BREZY and across Connecticut