danb35 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Quote: allsmiles Aeroshell 15W50 is one of the best aviation oils on the market. Quote
jetdriven Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 And do you believe someone who sells 3 million $worth of oil (so did Mobil, with their AV1), or do you follow the guidance of a defected petroleum engineer who made his own additive package and a 60 year old IA with an CFII and a 3,000 SMOH TURBO 310R who happens to run the stuff we are all talking about? The additive Aviation Consumer said has clearly proven to extend the time before rust appears on their sample coupons on their corrosion test. The stuff that seems to help infrequently flown private aircraft make more hours before they go kaput? Quote
PTK Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Quote: danb35 You're the one who said, a few posts back, that we should leave the recommendations to the experts, right? What are your expert qualifications to evaluate aviation oils? On what basis (and under what criteria) do you evaluate Aeroshell 15W50 as "one of the best"? Obviously Ed Kollins has an interest in selling Camguard, as it's his product. Mike Busch, as far as I know, has no such interest. By virtue of managing maintenance for a sizable portion of the Cirrus fleet (among other aircraft), he's in a good position to know what happens to oil analysis results, on a fairly large scale, when Camguard is used. His experience says that wear metals and corrosion uniformly and significantly drop when it is used. I think that's a worthwhile data point. YMMV, of course. Quote
PTK Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Quote: jetdriven And do you believe someone who sells 3 million $worth of oil (so did Mobil, with their AV1), or do you follow the guidance of a defected petroleum engineer who made his own additive package and a 60 year old IA with an CFII and a 3,000 SMOH TURBO 310R who happens to run the stuff we are all talking about? The additive Aviation Consumer said has clearly proven to extend the time before rust appears on their sample coupons on their corrosion test. The stuff that seems to help infrequently flown private aircraft make more hours before they go kaput? Quote
jetdriven Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Sure! Call up the overhaul shop when your 25K engine eats a camshaft befroe TBO. Im sure the 6-8$ a quart boys are looking out for you. Tel me again, why are we seeing so many Lycoming cam problems in the past decade? LOP? Quote
PTK Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Quote: jetdriven Sure! Call up the overhaul shop when your 25K engine eats a camshaft befroe TBO. Im sure the 6-8$ a quart boys are looking out for you. Tel me again, why are we seeing so many Lycoming cam problems in the past decade? LOP? Quote
jetdriven Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Yes. Lycoming cam spalling is a serous issue and is a relatively new thing in this magnitude. Read a few threads on herw about new owners and a fresh overhaul. Book says every 4 months or 50 hours I have oil analysis at 50 hours that shows the acid numbers within limits. Any more often than that is money wasted. Change your oil after every flight if it maskes you feel better, but the data remains the same. Failure is unpredictable. But synthetic blends increase that risk. Continental cams are below the crank therefore not as many cam spalling problems. They have valve problems mainly because of crappy machining. Yeah, Busch is full of shit. He doesnt fly behind 3,000 hour engines or use Camguard and do oil analysis. Neither does Kollin. I am a paid shill too. I do root canals on the side, 800$ a molar. I am the best. Quote
PTK Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Hey Byron chill out man! Really? How long does it take you? Quote
jetdriven Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Talking to the lobster over a white cloth fancy dinner isnt a problem. You ask the lobster its opinion on eating veal. The lobster talking back is when you have a problem. I have heard of this problem. Quote: allsmiles See what happens when we don't fly our Mooneys and instead we sit here typing on a keyboard? If our Mooneys could only talk! They would knock some sense into us and tell us to go fly them instead. Oh...wait a minute what am I saying... my Mooney does talks to me. And I affectionately talk to her back... !! Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Quote: jetdriven I do root canals on the side, 800$ a molar. I am the best. Quote
PTK Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Byron, how did you make out with the fire extinguisher? Quote
jetdriven Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 I got the PM. Its interesting. I think I can do it. Annual this month. I appreciate you sending me the info. Photos to come. Quote: allsmiles Byron, how did you make out with the fire extinguisher? Quote
aviatoreb Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Quote: jetdriven You can mix 4 bottles of different oil. Plus marvel mystery and STP. Just fly it every day ! Quote
scottfromiowa Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Quote: allsmiles Mobil is not Shell. When it comes to aviation lubricants Mobil can't polish Shell's shoes! Mobil is the new kid on this block who tried to adapt a full synthetic into aviation from their automotive Mobil 1 platform. They failed because aircraft engines are different than automobile engines. Shell on the other hand has been in aviation lubricants since before Jimmy Doolittle was running the company! He helped Shell develop 100 Octane fuel! He is also regarded as the father of instrument flying. Aeroshell 15W50 is one of the best aviation oils on the market. It amazes me to see how some people are so easily swayed by some fast talking sales pitches from the sidelines! Quote
GeorgePerry Posted January 12, 2012 Report Posted January 12, 2012 Quote: jetdriven Yes. Lycoming cam spalling is a serous issue and is a relatively new thing in this magnitude. Quote
alex Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Quote: Parker_Woodruff Phillips = King Quote
PTK Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Quote: Parker_Woodruff Wow. No talent. root canals are a DIY procedure. Quote
PTK Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Quote: scottfromiowa It amazes me that there are people that are so "into" name brands. I have read articles as discussed by Byron. I was NOT "easily swayed". If you like Aeroshell use it. I am perfectly happy with using a less expensive oil Phillips X/C and targeting anti rust prevention with CamGuard. You see some people don't "Fly the hell" out of their airplanes...Camguard helps protect their engines and is designed to continue to coat the parts LONGER than other oil additives...based on what I have read. I call it a decision...you can call it "swayed"...whatever. Quote
DaV8or Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Quote: allsmiles Scott, who wrote these articles and where is their science? Show me the science. Without it we can't call it a "decision." Quote
201er Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 I'm sorry, I'm a bit lost in all this debate. Could someone give me the cliffnotes version of the differences between Phillips and Shell with pros/cons of each? Just the brief point? Quote
knute Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Aviation Consumer has some good articles on this, including hard empirical corrosion tests they did with metal coupons and various combinations of oil and additives. For oil without additional additives Exxon Elite won for corrosion protection, but Camguard bumped the other oils up to similar protection. They also have other articles that address wear, including statistical trend information from Blackstone across large numbers of aircraft and interviews with some of the top engine rebuilders (RAM, Penn Yan, etc.) that supported Camguard's wear reduction claims. The legitimacy of Camguard isn't smoke, it's more an issue of whether the benefits outweigh the cost. Clarifying edit- Exxon Elite won the corrosion test with plain water, Aeroshell won the test with salt spray. Quote
Vref Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Joining DAV80R, ordered camguard today after I took a flight in my Mooney, now I can finally peacefully hibernate.......well for a week or three rgds Luc Quote
scottfromiowa Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Quote: DaV8or Why not?? One can make a decision without any science involved what so ever. I have to ask though, who are you hoping to provide you with any "science" on this subject? Who is going to bother to do the rigorous testing and analysis you hope for? The oil companies might, but then they are biased and are likely handing you propaganda. The Camguard guys have done this, but it's all just a swindle to sell you snake oil. Av Consumer? Mike Busch? GAMI? APS? All these guys are pretty much just as qualifed as we are. They're not petroleum scientists or engineers, so all they can do is read the same stuff we can and parrot it back to us. In the end, it's just whatever helps you sleep at night. For me, I had to do something. My plane wasn't flying last year anywhere near enough last year. At least it had Aero Shell Plus in it and Ed from Camgaurd did state that his testing showed that of the oils you could buy and use without additive, this one was clearly the best at corrosion protection. He also has said that if you choose to use his product, adding it to Aero Shell Plus vs. a cheaper oil provided no additional benifit, so his recommendation was use the cheapest and save the money. Why do I beleive Ed? Basically because he bothered to come on the AOPA forums and discuss his "science" with all who participate there. He made some pretty convincing arguments and he sounded very knowlegeble on not only lubrication sciences, but also the ins and outs of the oil refining and marketing business. Still, does this mean that he speaks the absolute unbiased truth? No way to know and I guess I'll never know, but nobody else from the oil business, or additive business has bothered to get right in our world and have a discussion about it. I do know that lots of people have used his product for extended periods of time and are impressed when they finally tear down or repair an engine. I needed sleep, so Camgaurd and Phillips X/C it is. Decision made and so far it's working great. Quote
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