No power on Battery #1

[BillC]

Yesterday I could not start my Ovation 24v on Battery #1. When The battery was selected I lost all power. Switched to Number 2 and it worked fine.  I didn’t have my volt meter with me so I removed the battery to have it charged and load tested. Battery was at 24.2 volts. I wasn’t able to have it load tested because shops were closed. I noticed when removing the battery a fuse in line with what appeared to be the positive cable. Not sure if this is part of the power cable, battery maintainer, or something elsa as I didn’t look at it closely assuming it was a low battery.. Does anyone know what size the fuse is? Any ideas where to look if fuse is OK?  Airport is an hour away and would pick one up on the way back there tomorrow.

Batteries are two year old Concorde RG24-15’s.

Thanks,

Bill

Edited February 13, 2022 by BillC

[LANCECASPER]

50 minutes ago, BillC said:

Yesterday I could not start my Ovation 24v on Battery #1. When The battery was selected I lost all power. Switched to Number 2 and it worked fine.  I didn’t have my volt meter with me so I removed the battery to have it charged and load tested. Battery was at 24.2 volts. I wasn’t able to have it load tested because shops were closed. I noticed when removing the battery a fuse in line with what appeared to be the positive cable. Not sure if this is part of the power cable, battery maintainer, or something elsa as I didn’t look at it closely assuming it was a low battery.. Does anyone know what size the fuse is? Any ideas where to look if fuse is OK?  Airport is an hour away and would pick one up on the way back there tomorrow.

Batteries are two year old Concorde RG24-15’s.

Thanks,

Bill

That's probably your trickle charge fuse. This service bulletin should let you know which fuse: 

https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SBM20-275.pdf

[BillC]

Thanks for the reply Lance. This SB was completed last year. Any other ideas about no power from a good battery? Battery Solenoid?

Thanks,

Bill

[LANCECASPER]

48 minutes ago, BillC said:

Thanks for the reply Lance. This SB was completed last year. Any other ideas about no power from a good battery? Battery Solenoid?

Thanks,

Bill

Even if the SB was completed, check the fuse that was part of the SB to see if it's blown. Even though it's a Slo-Blo fuse it could still be blown. Later on Mooney put circuit breakers in the battery area to eliminate the inline fuses.

Your battery might not be good. I've seen them show 24v with a bad cell.

[BillC]

Thanks again for your help Lance. I’ll load test it tomorrow and check fuses. 

Bill

[atpdave]

5 hours ago, BillC said:

Thanks for the reply Lance. This SB was completed last year. Any other ideas about no power from a good battery? Battery Solenoid?

Thanks,

Bill

Bill, on SNs 29-0001 through 29-0012 and from 29-0131 on, the cabin and baggage lights are connected directly to the #1 battery through a 5A fuse.  29-0013 through 29-0130 have them connected to both batteries through some diodes and a fuse.  Also starting with 29-0131 a baggage light timer was added and the switch is spring-loaded momentary on.  It's likely that a cabin light was left on and drained your #1 battery.

Verifying that these lights are off is a POH Securing Aircraft Checklist item, arguably the most important item because it's risky (easily overlooked and costly).

Of course, I could be completely wrong in your case, but cabin lights left on are known to kill the #1 battery in these models.

The lighting circuit is not related to the charging circuit SB referenced above by Lance.

[BillC]

Thank you Dave. I experienced the baggage light catastrophe a few years ago reaching into the baggage compartment during the day.  Never saw that I had hit the switch with luggage. It actually drained both batteries on my serial number as you said. Neither Concordes could be saved.  The previous owner had warned me about the lightbulb  and had removed it so that wouldn’t happen .My excellent IA found the bulb missing and replaced it. I pulled the bulb so that will never happen  again. That was an expensive lesson!

1 hour ago, atpdave said:

Bill, on SNs 29-0001 through 29-0012 and from 29-0131 on, the cabin and baggage lights are connected directly to the #1 battery through a 5A fuse.  29-0013 through 29-0130 have them connected to both batteries through some diodes and a fuse.  Also starting with 29-0131 a baggage light timer was added and the switch is spring-loaded momentary on.  It's likely that a cabin light was left on and drained your #1 battery.

Verifying that these lights are off is a POH Securing Aircraft Checklist item, arguably the most important item because it's risky (easily overlooked and costly).

Of course, I could be completely wrong in your case, but cabin lights left on are known to kill the #1 battery in these models.

The lighting circuit is not related to the charging circuit SB referenced above by Lance.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by BillC

[rgpilot]

Check connection of ground cable from battery where it connects to aircraft. Had this happen to me recently.

[BillC]

1 hour ago, rgpilot said:

Check connection of ground cable from battery where it connects to aircraft. Had this happen to me recently.

Thanks.  I’ll check that too.

[carusoam]

Baggage light… and back seat lights…

And anything left in the cigarette lighter socket… like a portable ADSB in device…

Are the common ways an O1 Battery#1 have been drained…

 

Good luck finding the culprit!

Best regards,

-a-

[FlyingDude]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:53 PM, BillC said:

I wasn’t able to have it load tested because shops were closed.

You can get a load test at AutoZone. An AP here had given me this suggestion when my old battery was crossing over to battery heaven...

[ziggysanchez]

On 2/14/2022 at 5:44 AM, rgpilot said:

Check connection of ground cable from battery where it connects to aircraft. Had this happen to me recently.

Same happened to me recently and this was the cause. 

[thinwing]

I suspect battery solonoid......get out you multimeter ,energise battery 1 after removing pilots avionics panel.I replaced my german mfd unit with a PMA solonoid from aircraft spruce

[BillC]

UPDATE: After letting the freshly charged batteries rest for 12 hours, as per Concorde manual, neither battery would load test within specs (indicated 62 and 68 respectively) and could not be saved.  I ordered new Concordes. After new battery install we will be able to troubleshoot any potential problem with the charging/ draw. Odd that both batteries. being 29 months old, would fail since they are always on a maintainer. I’ll update after install and finding.

Bill

[ZuluZulu]

1 hour ago, BillC said:

UPDATE: After letting the freshly charged batteries rest for 12 hours, as per Concorde manual, neither battery would load test within specs (indicated 62 and 68 respectively) and could not be saved.  I ordered new Concordes. After new battery install we will be able to troubleshoot any potential problem with the charging/ draw. Odd that both batteries. being 29 months old, would fail since they are always on a maintainer. I’ll update after install and finding.

Bill

Which maintainer?  I have a BatteryMINDer, if this happened to me after keeping the battery connected all times I'm not flying I'd be ticked!

[BillC]

28 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

Which maintainer?  I have a BatteryMINDer, if this happened to me after keeping the battery connected all times I'm not flying I'd be ticked!

I have a BatteryMINDER like you for Concorde. I also just bought a splitter to maintain both batteries at the same time.

[LANCECASPER]

14 hours ago, BillC said:

UPDATE: After letting the freshly charged batteries rest for 12 hours, as per Concorde manual, neither battery would load test within specs (indicated 62 and 68 respectively) and could not be saved.  I ordered new Concordes. After new battery install we will be able to troubleshoot any potential problem with the charging/ draw. Odd that both batteries. being 29 months old, would fail since they are always on a maintainer. I’ll update after install and finding.

Bill

Any idea what your cruise voltage is? It may be too high. Your voltage regulator may need to be adjusted down.

[BillC]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Any idea what your cruise voltage is? It may be too high. Your voltage regulator may need to be adjusted down.

I wasn’t able to start the airplane so I don’t know.  I will check that out once the new batteries are installed. What do you believe the cruise voltage should be?

Thanks.

Edited February 17, 2022 by BillC

[LANCECASPER]

7 minutes ago, BillC said:

I wasn’t able to start the airplane so I don’t know.  I will check that out once the new batteries are installed. Thanks.

I have heard differing thoughts on this but on two of the three Bravos I had, the voltage was just over 28, like 28.1 or28.2. On another airplane it was 28.8 and seemed to eat batteries more often. On the Acclaim that I have now the cruise voltage is 28.4 and soon after buying the airplane I replaced both batteries. one of which was 13 year old and the other was about 7 or 8. It seems that if voltage is set too high it shortens the battery life, so if it's set in the high 28's or more that may be the cause.

[BillC]

50 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I have heard differing thoughts on this but on two of the three Bravos I had, the voltage was just over 28, like 28.1 or28.2. On another airplane it was 28.8 and seemed to eat batteries more often. On the Acclaim that I have now the cruise voltage is 28.4 and soon after buying the airplane I replaced both batteries. one of which was 13 year old and the other was about 7 or 8. It seems that if voltage is set too high it shortens the battery life, so if it's set in the high 28's or more that may be the cause.

Thank you Lance. I’ll be sure to check that on my first flight.

[carusoam]

The Battery supplier user manual may make a good reference for that…

Fuzzy PP memory of reading a Concorde manual A while back…. 
 

Probably a range near 28v…

PP thoughts only…

-a-

[thinwing]

failures after only 2.5 years for both batteries is a real outlier.....

[BillC]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:41 AM, LANCECASPER said:

I have heard differing thoughts on this but on two of the three Bravos I had, the voltage was just over 28, like 28.1 or28.2. On another airplane it was 28.8 and seemed to eat batteries more often. On the Acclaim that I have now the cruise voltage is 28.4 and soon after buying the airplane I replaced both batteries. one of which was 13 year old and the other was about 7 or 8. It seems that if voltage is set too high it shortens the battery life, so if it's set in the high 28's or more that may be the cause.

Lance,

I was able to check the buss voltage today. It was 29.1 on both busses! It would seem the voltage is what may have cooked the other Concordes. Before I cook these I need to bring the voltage down to 28 like you said. 

Thanks,

Bill

Edited February 24, 2022 by BillC

[LANCECASPER]

24 minutes ago, BillC said:

Lance,

I was able to check the buss voltage today. It was 29.1 on both busses! It would seem the voltage is what may have cooked the other Concordes. Before I cook these I need to bring the voltage down to 28 like you said. I am an A&P but not a good one. Is this adjustment something I could do and if so would you explain the procedure?

Thanks,

Bill

I am not an a&p and even if I was I would have a shop do this that has done it before. I sent you some info via PM.