New motor mounts, still saggy

[Niko182]

3 hours ago, dogbocks said:

Interesting, well call your MSC and order a couple 600364-7 washers and that should fix it, I will let you know when I get mine on, might wait until the next oil change though. 

Please update on the effects after youre done.

[kmyfm20s]

Looking at a static alignment of the spinner/cowl isn’t necessarily correct. You need you look at the spinner/cowl alignment during a run up. A lot of positional changes when under power. 

[mooneyflyfast]

22 hours ago, PT20J said:

Is it the cowling? On the M20Js my cowling is perfect when installed, but moves up and aft at the top after flight messing up the alignment. 

Skip

Lasar has (or had) a mod to prevent the cowl moving up.  It involves installing a reinforcement on both sides in the lower boot cowl and anchoring the cowl to it using a machine screw.  there has been quite a bit of discussion on here about that in the past.

[PT20J]

Just now, mooneyflyfast said:

Lasar has (or had) a mod to prevent the cowl moving up.  It involves installing a reinforcement on both sides in the lower boot cowl and anchoring the cowl to it using a machine screw.  there has been quite a bit of discussion on here about that in the past.

They don’t make it anymore, in fact, LASAR has discontinued most of their STC parts.

[MIm20c]

11 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

Looking at a static alignment of the spinner/cowl isn’t necessarily correct. You need you look at the spinner/cowl alignment during a run up. A lot of positional changes when under power. 

There was a post some time back where a MS member had pictures of the prop static and from the side in flight. The position was approximately the same. 

[G-SLOT]

I had a sagging prop when I bought the plane (O2) in late 2019 and replaced the mounts in January 2020 when I overhauled the prop. I was disappointed to see that it made no difference. During the annual later in 2020, having asked for washers to be installed to level the prop, the excellent MSC sent me a picture of the mounts, noting they had been installed upside down!! Put right and the prop now sits straight. 

[mooneyflyfast]

4 hours ago, PT20J said:

They don’t make it anymore, in fact, LASAR has discontinued most of their STC parts.

Should be easy to fabricate if you could find a drawing or reverse engineer if you cold look at one installed.

[carusoam]

10 hours ago, G-SLOT said:

I had a sagging prop when I bought the plane (O2) in late 2019 and replaced the mounts in January 2020 when I overhauled the prop. I was disappointed to see that it made no difference. During the annual later in 2020, having asked for washers to be installed to level the prop, the excellent MSC sent me a picture of the mounts, noting they had been installed upside down!! Put right and the prop now sits straight. 

Got a pic?

I get the feeling I must be missing something...   

Best regards,

-a-

[Steve Yucht]

I have a 2000 O2 that had the same issue. New mounts and everything was fine until a nose gear collapse (metal fatigue, not bounce) caused an IRAN. Came back with the same sag.  Phil Jimenez at KAVO made her right again this last annual. Give Phil a call, he’s a Mooney whisperer. 

[Niko182]

18 hours ago, Steve Yucht said:

I have a 2000 O2 that had the same issue. New mounts and everything was fine until a nose gear collapse (metal fatigue, not bounce) caused an IRAN. Came back with the same sag.  Phil Jimenez at KAVO made her right again this last annual. Give Phil a call, he’s a Mooney whisperer. 

Do you know what he did?

[dogbocks]

Ok I got the washers from Mooney in Kerrville via LASAR. 

They are 0.129 thick, 2" OD, 7/16ID. 

I will updated when I get them installed, might be a minute...

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by dogbocks

[carusoam]

If they are the exact thickness required...

All will be good...

if not.... read up on the slotted spacers...

the slot helps with sliding additional spacers in place...

Expect adding a spacer over the years to be normal...

Best regards,

-a-

[Mufflerbearing]

My plane had the exact sagging issue so I changed the Lord mounts.  I too was very disappointed after spending so much effort to change all 4 mounts out to see nothing had changed.  I can't wait to see if installing these washers will indeed bring them to perfect allignment.  Also, wouldn't it be easier to install if these were slotted?  Would there be a downside to cutting a notch in these so they could just slide over the bolt instead of fighting the alignment of the mount to engine?

 

[dogbocks]

Hey guys, OK I got the washers installed this weekend. 

First of all I got the wrong bolts, so that delayed things. The motor mount bolts are 7/16 (AN7) and I ordered some AN7-52 because I knew I needed them to be 1/8 inch longer than the -50 bolts that are in there to account for the 1/8 inch washer. Well it turns out that NAS and AN bolts have different lengths for the same dash number. Didn't know that. So a AN7-52 is way too long, you need a NAS 7 bolt in -52.

Turns out a NAS 7 bolt in that length is very rare and no aircraft hardware suppliers had it in stock and it was going to be hard to track down. Then I found out that Mooney in Kerrville has them in stock, probably for this exact reason. Wish I knew that when I ordered the spacers!

You can see in this pic the bolt is just less than 4 inches long. A AN7-52 is 5 11/32 long. 

 

It is a real PITA to install those. Took me and my IA about 3 hours and a record amount of swearing. Once you disconnect 2 mounts, getting it all to line up again is not fun. 

 

Ok so the verdict: I didn't get any great side view pics, I can take some next time I head to the airport, but here it is all back together with the 1/8 inch spacer. 

Once I go this top cowling back on I was thinking crap....that didn't do anything, but then when you look at the bottom cowling:

I realized it is much better. Before there was a 1/4 inch or more gap on the top and the bottom cowling was exactly flush with the spinner. Now there is a nearly equal gap all the way around the spinner to the cowling. Maybe a 1/8 or so. So the spinner is now lined up pretty well with the cowling, its just now I am noticing the spinner is slightly too small as pointed out earlier in this thread. Well anyway, it was a worthwhile improvement. 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by dogbocks

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, dogbocks said:

Hey guys, OK I got the washers installed this weekend. 

First of all I got the wrong bolts, so that delayed things. The motor mount bolts are 7/16 (AN7) and I ordered some AN7-52 because I knew I needed them to be 1/8 inch longer than the -50 bolts that are in there to account for the 1/8 inch washer. Well it turns out that NAS and AN bolts have different lengths for the same dash number. Didn't know that. So a AN7-52 is way too long, you need a NAS 7 bolt in -52.

Turns out a NAS 7 bolt in that length is very rare and no aircraft hardware suppliers had it in stock and it was going to be hard to track down. Then I found out that Mooney in Kerrville has them in stock, probably for this exact reason. Wish I knew that when I ordered the spacers!

You can see in this pic the bolt is just less than 4 inches long. A AN7-52 is 5 11/32 long. 

 

It is a real PITA to install those. Took me and my IA about 3 hours and a record amount of swearing. Once you disconnect 2 mounts, getting it all to line up again is not fun. 

 

Ok so the verdict: I didn't get any great side view pics, I can take some next time I head to the airport, but here it is all back together with the 1/8 inch spacer. 

Once I go this top cowling back on I was thinking crap....that didn't do anything, but then when you look at the bottom cowling:

I realized it is much better. Before there was a 1/4 inch or more gap on the top and the bottom cowling was exactly flush with the spinner. Now there is a nearly equal gap all the way around the spinner to the cowling. Maybe a 1/8 or so. So the spinner is now lined up pretty well with the cowling, its just now I am noticing the spinner is slightly too small as pointed out earlier in this thread. Well anyway, it was a worthwhile improvement. 

 

Did you only remove 2 of the mounts or did you lift the entire engine. If you only removed 2 of the mounts, how were you able to realign the threads with the bolts? I'd like to do the same thing you did. I just wish this thread had come out a week before I did my mounts instead of a week after.

[dogbocks]

3 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

Did you only remove 2 of the mounts or did you lift the entire engine. If you only removed 2 of the mounts, how were you able to realign the threads with the bolts? I'd like to do the same thing you did. I just wish this thread had come out a week before I did my mounts instead of a week after.

At first we just removed the front 2 bolts, and slide the washers in. Things were so miss aligned, we ended up taking out the rear bolts too, and re-aligning the whole engine with all 4 bolts out. Then, we put in the front two first and the rear two last. 

Maybe if you are very clever and very patient you could remove the front bolts only, lift the engine up, slide the washers in and put the front bolts back in, but while I planned to do that, it did not work out that way. 

[MIm20c]

Nice write up. Now all the people that keep telling me it’s normal and can’t be fixed have some pictures to refer to.
 

I think I might have two more Mooney shims in the closet as I picked up four when we did it a few years back.  If I can find them I’d be happy to forward them to another needy Ovation owner. If you’re close to SW Michigan fly over and I’ll buy you lunch.

[Niko182]

Looks like I'm going to be figuring this out soon. Would these bolts work with the added spacer?

https://robinsonheli.com/3-column/shop/parts/r44-parts/bolt-112/