Opinions wanted! CGR-30 P & C versus EDM 900

[Marauder]

On 4/4/2021 at 1:32 PM, Tim Jodice said:

What is the difference between firmware and software? Serious question I don't know. 

How do you like the PMA450A? If you have time could you take a full picture of it? I have never seen one installed. I have had intrest in one because it looks like a nice way to reduce panel clutter.

The PMA 450A has been great. Nice crisp clear audio and intercom.

[jamesm]

  On 4/4/2021 at 10:32 AM, Tim Jodice said:

What is the difference between firmware and software? Serious question I don't know. 

Typically the firmware unit specific  like a N number or Engine parameter(s) as such or to expand a capability of GPS or ADS-B unit . So say you sold Engine Monitor or ADS-B or GPS unit to another Mooney owner. The Mooney owner that you sold it to has different Prop operating limits or different tail number in ADS-B etc etc, more than like likely that is going to be a firmware update.

Depending on the vendor they may allow upgrade in the field or you may have to send back to manufacture for an upgrade. Whereas a terrain update or a nav data base (every 28 days for IFR) would be consider software update.

Edited April 6, 2021 by jamesm

[Stan]

To answer where I have my EI 30P box placed: Above Pilots side rudder pedals.

 

 

 

[OR75]

11 hours ago, Stan said:

To answer where I have my EI 30P box placed: Above Pilots side rudder pedals.

 

 

 

Is it bolted to the firewall ? I thought the connector was supposed to point down but honestly have no idea why it would make a difference 
thanks for sharing 

[carusoam]

4 hours ago, OR75 said:

Is it bolted to the firewall ? I thought the connector was supposed to point down but honestly have no idea why it would make a difference 
thanks for sharing 

To keep things from falling in...

A simple can of soda explosion or something similar...

Over the years we have seen a bunch of screws fall into places you wouldn’t expect them to be...

Plan for odd stuff to happen...
 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Stan]

I'll send pictures from the "other side." 

[Igor_U]

On 4/7/2021 at 4:30 PM, OR75 said:

Is it bolted to the firewall ? I thought the connector was supposed to point down but honestly have no idea why it would make a difference 
thanks for sharing 

I think you are correct but i did the install 4-5 years ago so I can't state that for sure.

I installed my box in co-pilots foot well behind the interior panel (carpet) on a flat sheet-metal bracket. Bracket is attached to the tubular structure - there were couple of 3/16 die. threads in the tubes (or gussets) that I used and on top we utilized the P-clamp or similar. Unfortunately i have no pictures of the installation.

 

 

[luv737s]

Went with the MVP-50 since it is now STC approved for my C, removed all the antique gauges.   CGR is nice but need 2 units to comply as primary.  With Rebates, almost identical price with the JPI and more functionality.  Should be out of the shop next week, will post a picture.

[carusoam]

1 minute ago, luv737s said:

Went with the MVP-50 since it is now STC approved for my C, removed all the antique gauges.   CGR is nice but need 2 units to comply as primary.  With Rebates, almost identical price with the JPI and more functionality.  Should be out of the shop next week, will post a picture.

If any tough questions arise during the install...

We have a really good EI insider....  @oregon87   
 

Best regards,

-a-

[luv737s]

Thanks, going well so far.  Shop I am using at KBAZ has several MVP-50's in their Cessna fleet, so I hope it goes smoolthly.

 

[oregon87]

I'm here!  

 

If anyone is interested in the CGR-30-Combo package, we are offering a $800.00 mail-in rebate until the end of April.  I've provided a link below if anyone would like a closer look.  If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to help!  We just returned from a fantastic trip to Sun N Fun.  While vendor attendance was down a bit, we were very busy at our booth, as were others.  Strong attendance from a very enthusiastic crowd.  It was fantastic to get back to the face to face interactions.

Spirit of Sun N Fun Rebate

[jamesm]

Not sure if the JPI setup use  two tach sensors for  both Mag's. But with the EI CGR30 C&P setup does, it is uses both P-Leads. Especially critical if you have Surefly Electronic Magneto with Electroair start switch panel. there has been more than once on the ground taxiing back to the Hangar from the fuel pumps. I looked at the CGR and  noticed that I had forgot to turn on the right (Bendix) Mag since engine is running smooth.  Since there is annunciation  to differentiate between the Left and Right Mag  and it is  recorded in data log file as well. It adds to the confirmation.

[podair]

thinking of re-jigging my copilot panel and came across this thread. I thinking of getting rid of the original 6 engine gauges cluster. I am reasonably happy with my EDM730 but fed up with the 1980s VCR user interface, so thinking of not going full JPI. I don't want to go EDM900 and have to re-do all the probes (there is a hangar elves workaround... I know) and also get dependent on one single instrument, so I am thinking of maybe adding a CGC30C to replace the cluster , and possibly the original gauge and existing EI RPM . The idea would be to put the EDM where the cluster is, and re arrange the other stuff, maybe putting in the CGR where the EDM is so it is right in my scan, and Strikefinder next to it. I had the panels laser cut so have all the CAD templates and can do a bunch of that myself.

I have RPM and MAP already on the 730, ie converted to an 830 , but non primary and haven't been able to make these work reliably, need to check the connections.

I quite like the idea of keeping the EDM for EGT/CHT, and just having one CGR for the other stuff. What does everyone think?

What happens with the fuel senders? Can I use the original ones (for now?) or do I have to go CIES (which is great but a lot of work)? Can I switch to CIES later?

There is also the Garmin EIS option....

Edited November 2, 2021 by podair

[carusoam]

EI makes great instruments…

There are a few that have been installed around here…. Compare the specs to see what you get for each round instrument… and know what variables are primary…

You probably need the two instruments for complete primary coverage… ask Oregon the tough questions…. @oregon87…

Best regards,

-a-

[oregon87]

23 hours ago, podair said:

I quite like the idea of keeping the EDM for EGT/CHT, and just having one CGR for the other stuff. What does everyone think?

What happens with the fuel senders? Can I use the original ones (for now?) or do I have to go CIES (which is great but a lot of work)? Can I switch to CIES later?

There is also the Garmin EIS option....

 

The CGR-30C can display up to 16 primary functions.  As such, it sounds like it will do exactly what you'd like.  Regarding the fuel senders, the CGR-30C can be interfaced with the factory resistive senders.  Additionally, it can be updated later for digital senders, if you choose and the change can be done via e-mail.  Worth noting, if you elect to upgrade to our P-300M fuel senders, changing the configuration can be done in a matter of minutes via phone call with me, or one of our other sales/support reps.  

[podair]

sounds indeed like it is exactly what I am after! thanks!

one thing reading through the docs is not completely  clear. 

- can the 30C be primary for RPM and MAP , not just the 30P?

- In this case RPM and MAP take two indication spots each if displayed

- am I obliged to have all current instruments displayed on the same page or can they go on the second page? To be clear , do I need oil temp, pressure, cht, left and right tanks, amps , fuel pressure, all on page one to keep primary status, or is having some on page two ok and they pop up if certain limits are reached?

[carusoam]

More questions for @oregon87 above…

Thanks for the great EI details…

Best regards,

-a-

[oregon87]

20 hours ago, podair said:

sounds indeed like it is exactly what I am after! thanks!

one thing reading through the docs is not completely  clear. 

- can the 30C be primary for RPM and MAP , not just the 30P?

- In this case RPM and MAP take two indication spots each if displayed

- am I obliged to have all current instruments displayed on the same page or can they go on the second page? To be clear , do I need oil temp, pressure, cht, left and right tanks, amps , fuel pressure, all on page one to keep primary status, or is having some on page two ok and they pop up if certain limits are reached?

RPM and manifold pressure can indeed be primary functions on the CGR-30C.  Additionally, up to six primary functions can be displayed on the second page as each of those functions can annunciate on the main page.  As such, the CGR-30C is certified to replace up to 16 primary functions, depending on the layout. 

[MMsuper21]

On 11/4/2021 at 11:55 AM, oregon87 said:

RPM and manifold pressure can indeed be primary functions on the CGR-30C.  Additionally, up to six primary functions can be displayed on the second page as each of those functions can annunciate on the main page.  As such, the CGR-30C is certified to replace up to 16 primary functions, depending on the layout. 

That’s great news. I read previously only the 30P can do rpm and MP. So the 30c can replace RPM/MP, Oil temp, Oil Pressure, L fuel, R fuel, and AMPs? 
 

I wanted the CGR combo but after install I was looking at 12k. Since I already had the insight gem 602 I got a good deal on the G2 and all is needed is the ground change reusing everything else. (Fuel Flow will be added during annual)
 

Now I can get rid of the primary (steam gauge engine needles) with the 30c with no panel work. 

[oregon87]

23 hours ago, MMsuper21 said:

That’s great news. I read previously only the 30P can do rpm and MP. So the 30c can replace RPM/MP, Oil temp, Oil Pressure, L fuel, R fuel, and AMPs? 

And then some!    RPM and manifold pressure are not limited to the CGR-30P, however, RPM is always included on the 30P.  As the 30C is a bit of a blank slate, RPM must be selected as a function to be monitored.  Attached is a copy of the CGR-30C's configuration worksheet for your convenience.  

CGR_30_Configuration_Worksheet_11182021.pdf

[MMsuper21]

15 hours ago, oregon87 said:

And then some!    RPM and manifold pressure are not limited to the CGR-30P, however, RPM is always included on the 30P.  As the 30C is a bit of a blank slate, RPM must be selected as a function to be monitored.  Attached is a copy of the CGR-30C's configuration worksheet for your convenience.  

CGR_30_Configuration_Worksheet_11182021.pdf 498.48 kB · 1 download

Thanks when I tried to get it on your website it was not working. 

[SLOWR426]

@J0nathan225 and @Marauder or others:  Did you install your JPI engine monitors on the outside of the panel (no panel cutout)?  They seem to be sticking proud quite a bit.  The installation manual says to cut the rectangle in your panel.  How's that working out for you?  Do you have to remove the engine monitor to remove the panel?

 

[SLOWR426]

On 4/3/2021 at 6:48 PM, gsxrpilot said:

The Garmin GI275 can theoretically do all of it in a single instrument only taking a single hole. But after looking at it myself, it just doesn't display enough to be useful for me. I would want to be able to keep MP/RPM visible all the time and at the same time see all EGT's, CHT's, and Fuel flow at minimum. The GI275 just can't display that info all at the same time and so you'd be going back and forth between displays to get the info.

It looks like maybe Garmin was listening when you posted this, as CHT, EGT, and fuel flow are on every screen, besides the config screen:  https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/897577

[SLOWR426]

On 4/7/2021 at 5:02 AM, Stan said:

To answer where I have my EI 30P box placed: Above Pilots side rudder pedals.

 

Since the EI CGR-30's interface box must be mounted on the INSIDE of the firewall, doesn't this mean that fuel lines, oil lines, etc must still penetrate the firewall?

Why don't I see them in the photo above?  Thanks

[carusoam]

1 hour ago, SLOWR426 said:

Since the EI CGR-30's interface box must be mounted on the INSIDE of the firewall, doesn't this mean that fuel lines, oil lines, etc must still penetrate the firewall?

Why don't I see them in the photo above?  Thanks

Welcome to the world of electronics and engine monitoring…

The whole idea is to have the sensor close to what it is sensing….

Then use wires to transmit that data to the cockpit…

Soooo…

No hot oil…

No pressurized fuel…

No vacuum….

Leaking on the passenger side of the firewall….

 

Yes, I had vacuum leak all over the place once… my MP gauge line with the calibrated leak hole… cracked open….  

New electronics don’t have calibrated leak holes for their MP any more either…. 
 

in the 60s… stuff had to be that way… 

since the 90s… if it looks like an analog gauge… it is probably digitally driven… based on sensors detecting things on the hot side of the firewall…

Let’s invite the EI guy to answer this question…. @oregon87

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-