NotarPilot Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I recently started looking at planes for a future purchase and looked at a 1978 Mooney M20J today that I found for sale on Controller. It has nice interior but the paint is original. Asking price is $65k Overall, the plane looks decent to me, however, there were some places I saw bare aluminum (To be expected on an older plane with original paint) and some rust around the rivets on the horizontal stab. I crawled on and under this plane and looked in the wheel wells, etc. But I don't know what's normal and what's bad. I need help to determine if these normal, for this age of plane, or should I just continue looking at other planes. I took numerous photos of what I saw. If anyone would like to take a look at the photos and lend their advice on whether to proceed looking at this plane or continue looking elsewhere just email me at my username at gmail. A prebuy inspection would definitely be done on the plane should I decide to pursue it but I just want to know if it should even get to that? Thanks in advance. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Remember the plane you will be potentially purchasing will be new to you but not new to the world. 65K doesn’t buy perfection it buys a 30 + year old plane. Regardless of what advice your given from whomever regarding your potential purchase remember to always have a pre-purchase inspection done with a reputable and well known Mooney mechanic. Although some on this board might disagree with me I would say it’s virtually impossible to have any type of metallic machine that’s over 30+ years old and that has been exposed to the elements that doesn’t have a single solitary piece of corrosion somewhere on it. Certain areas however; are more critical then others when it comes to corrosion on a Mooney. That’s where the experienced Mooney mechanic comes in. Good luck with your search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: 201-FLYER Remember the plane you will be potentially purchasing will be new to you but not new to the world. 65K doesn’t buy perfection it buys a 30 + year old plane. Regardless of what advice your given from whomever regarding your potential purchase remember to always have a pre-purchase inspection done with a reputable and well known Mooney mechanic. Although some on this board might disagree with me I would say it’s virtually impossible to have any type of metallic machine that’s over 30+ years old and that has been exposed to the elements that doesn’t have a single solitary piece of corrosion somewhere on it. Certain areas however; are more critical then others when it comes to corrosion on a Mooney. That’s where the experienced Mooney mechanic comes in. Good luck with your search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Do you know what you want? Seriously, I am not trying to be sarcastic. What is important to you in the airplanes condition? I don't mean "is it safe?" or "airworthy" Planes can be re-painted, engines overhauled, interiors replaced, avionics upgraded. So it depends on where and when you want to spend your money. You can pay a higher price and get a well kept, updated plane that needs very little attention and not spend much more in the years to come or you can find a plane with a runout engine that needs overhaul and plan to spend an addition $30k after the purchase. The real issue is to not be surprised by something that was missed or overlooked. Find a knowledgeable mechanic and rely on their judgement. Read the log books. All maintenance is suppose to be recorded in the engine and airframe logbooks. Check these entries. Is there more being done to the plane than simple annual inspections? How often has the plane been flown? What you need to know is how much in addition to the selling price is it going to cost to make the plane the way YOU WANT IT. That is the number to be focused on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgePerry Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: NotarPilot I recently started looking at planes for a future purchase and looked at a 1978 Mooney M20J today that I found for sale on Controller. It has nice interior but the paint is original. Asking price is $65k Overall, the plane looks decent to me, however, there were some places I saw bare aluminum (To be expected on an older plane with original paint) and some rust around the rivets on the horizontal stab. I crawled on and under this plane and looked in the wheel wells, etc. But I don't know what's normal and what's bad. I need help to determine if these normal, for this age of plane, or should I just continue looking at other planes. I took numerous photos of what I saw. If anyone would like to take a look at the photos and lend their advice on whether to proceed looking at this plane or continue looking elsewhere just email me at my username at gmail. A prebuy inspection would definitely be done on the plane should I decide to pursue it but I just want to know if it should even get to that? Thanks in advance. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Thank you all. This is good advice. I expect to find corrosion on a 34 year old airplane. My worry is I don't want to get into something that's over my head that ends up as a money pit. I don't want the day I sell the airplane to be the happier day than when I buy it. Another question I have is, should I expect most airplanes I look at to have most service bulletins complied with? Airworthiness directives of course, I would not accept one that hasn't had all ADs complied with but what about SBs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgePerry Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: NotarPilot Another question I have is, should I expect most airplanes I look at to have most service bulletins complied with? Airworthiness directives of course, I would not accept one that hasn't had all ADs complied with but what about SBs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: NotarPilot Another question I have is, should I expect most airplanes I look at to have most service bulletins complied with? Airworthiness directives of course, I would not accept one that hasn't had all ADs complied with but what about SBs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: JimR I'll take the opposing position on SBs. If you read through them you'll see that they are not all created equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 What's your experience with planes, in general? Have you owned one before? $65K is a little on the low end for a J model. I would expect it needs a little TLC or updating based upon the price alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txbyker Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Steve, not meaning to insult anyones intelligence, but you may have been lucky and the first one you look at is the one you end up buying but even if you are really fired up about it I would look over several Mooneys and get a benchmark. I looked at about 5 or 6 and the one I ended up with was the second one I looked at. Some just didn't pass the gut test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregwatts Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: NotarPilot I recently started looking at planes for a future purchase and looked at a 1978 Mooney M20J today that I found for sale on Controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregwatts Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: NotarPilot I recently started looking at planes for a future purchase and looked at a 1978 Mooney M20J today that I found for sale on Controller. It has nice interior but the paint is original. Asking price is $65k Overall, the plane looks decent to me, however, there were some places I saw bare aluminum (To be expected on an older plane with original paint) and some rust around the rivets on the horizontal stab. I crawled on and under this plane and looked in the wheel wells, etc. But I don't know what's normal and what's bad. I need help to determine if these normal, for this age of plane, or should I just continue looking at other planes. I took numerous photos of what I saw. If anyone would like to take a look at the photos and lend their advice on whether to proceed looking at this plane or continue looking elsewhere just email me at my username at gmail. A prebuy inspection would definitely be done on the plane should I decide to pursue it but I just want to know if it should even get to that? Thanks in advance. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: NotarPilot I recently started looking at planes for a future purchase and looked at a 1978 Mooney M20J today that I found for sale on Controller. It has nice interior but the paint is original. Asking price is $65k Overall, the plane looks decent to me, however, there were some places I saw bare aluminum (To be expected on an older plane with original paint) and some rust around the rivets on the horizontal stab. I crawled on and under this plane and looked in the wheel wells, etc. But I don't know what's normal and what's bad. I need help to determine if these normal, for this age of plane, or should I just continue looking at other planes. I took numerous photos of what I saw. If anyone would like to take a look at the photos and lend their advice on whether to proceed looking at this plane or continue looking elsewhere just email me at my username at gmail. A prebuy inspection would definitely be done on the plane should I decide to pursue it but I just want to know if it should even get to that? Thanks in advance. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: JimR I'll take the opposing position on SBs. If you read through them you'll see that they are not all created equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the best advice given was to look at a lot of airplanes, that's the only way you can really begin to compare. Always remember too, it's always better to spend the money up front that somebody else has probably spent three times that amount to get the plane and keep it up to a tip top airplane. These babies are not cheap to maintain and parts are really expensive. It doesn't take long to throw 10k just on little stuff alone. Be very careful and find one that has been cared for!! Definitely find a top notch facility to do a prebuy as well. At 65K I have to imagine that it definitely needs some TLC or you could be lucky and it's just an owner that wants out fast? Being though that there is paint down to the bare metal and rust, I have to asssume that the airplane was kept outside. That's a big no no in my book. (that's just my book BTW/ pet peeve I guess). Really pay attention to what kind of money you're going to have to spend in order to make it personal to you...........Remember that shop rates are 65 or so per hour and price out the things you want to do with it. It will probably be way cheaper to spend more money up front. Not always the case though. Absolutely post the pictures. There are so many knowlegeable guys on this board and all of them will give you their honest opinion. It is a great forum with a great group of Mooniacs!! Good luck!! B~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I always go for the high ticket items....regardless. Tanks, cyliders/crank case, 208a/b, autopilot, glass, prop. Other expensive nagging problems......fuel selector valve, fuel pump, langing gear motor and rigging. Not flying or taxiing straight and below book KIAS can point to much larger problems. Everything else is "inspectable" and manageable. There are over 40 Mooneys for sale in that 60-70k range, though not all J's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: fantom Absolutely. Only an idiot would walk away from a otherwise perfectly good plane because some non-mandatory SB's haven't been done. This statement may be redundant If you really want the plane, and you demand every silly CYA SB done, pay for them yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: allsmiles Absolutely. Only an idiot would walk away from a otherwise perfectly good plane because some non-mandatory SB's haven't been done. This statement may be redundant If you really want the plane, and you demand every silly CYA SB done, pay for them yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Ross, I guess it depends on how strict you want to be as the buyer. IMHO by definition the best plane is one that has been meticulously maintained by a MSC. You can interpert this any way you see fit. I interpert it to mean SB's and AD's addressed and complied with. Keeping in mind that in today's climate a buyer can be strict. I'm not suggesting being stubborn and pasing up a genuinely good airplane. What I am suggesting is giving the seller a hard enough time by being prepared to walk away, to get the most for your dollar as a buyer. This way you can separate the chaf from the wheat. The attitude should be to approach the buying process as "I'm ready to buy AN airplane, the RIGHT airplane." Don't fall in love with the first airplane you see like it was when you met your first girlfriend! Relax, there is more than one airplane to consider, (just like women!!) But unlike women, Mooneys are not "you've seen one you've seen them all!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I just popped onto controller to see this 1978 20J for $65k out of sheer curiosity. I don't see a single 1978 listed for under $90k and the only 201 for $65k is the 1977 model 201 Gynocologist (N201GN). If this is the one you are reffering to I'd like to just point a couple things out since I looked at that ad when I was looking into buying my Mooney. First of all there are some substantial differences between the 1977 and 1978+ models that I hope you are aware of. Second, I've seen that plane listed for over a year now for about the same price which is a bit strange cause all the good ones would go off the market within 3-6 months. Just a heads up and something to keep in mind from someone else who just went through what you're going for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunderbear Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I agree with the Idiot, get everything that you want fixed. Its your money and the Mooney will take every bit of your Money if you are not careful. I purchased one in August this year with only 750 hours SMOH. Thinking I would get at least 1000 hours before any major expenses. Turns out that the seller hid a prop strike and all the avionics were taped together under the dash. Now 4 months later and another 30K gone, I got to fly the plane for the first time yesterday. While in Flight, the voltage regulator died and drained the battery, then I lost all avionics. Why am I spending so much money? Because I didn't verify everything and I was eager to purchase the plane. I am now an educated Idiot. Take your time and get all you want fixed before you take possession. Its your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: Gunderbear I agree with the Idiot, get everything that you want fixed. Its your money and the Mooney will take every bit of your Money if you are not careful. I purchased one in August this year with only 750 hours SMOH. Thinking I would get at least 1000 hours before any major expenses. Turns out that the seller hid a prop strike and all the avionics were taped together under the dash. Now 4 months later and another 30K gone, I got to fly the plane for the first time yesterday. While in Flight, the voltage regulator died and drained the battery, then I lost all avionics. Why am I spending so much money? Because I didn't verify everything and I was eager to purchase the plane. I am now an educated Idiot. Take your time and get all you want fixed before you take possession. Its your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quote: Gunderbear I agree with the Idiot, get everything that you want fixed. Its your money and the Mooney will take every bit of your Money if you are not careful. I purchased one in August this year with only 750 hours SMOH. Thinking I would get at least 1000 hours before any major expenses. Turns out that the seller hid a prop strike and all the avionics were taped together under the dash. Now 4 months later and another 30K gone, I got to fly the plane for the first time yesterday. While in Flight, the voltage regulator died and drained the battery, then I lost all avionics. Why am I spending so much money? Because I didn't verify everything and I was eager to purchase the plane. I am now an educated Idiot. Take your time and get all you want fixed before you take possession. Its your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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