Question from civilian

[Confused]

Please identify the device that rises out of the top of wing on the Mooney. Cold it be related to ice detection? 

[RLCarter]

Speed brakes

[gsxrpilot]

They're controlled by the pilot (usually a button on the control yoke) and can be used at any time the pilot chooses. The effect is either to slow down while maintaining a steady descent or to increase the descent rate while maintaining the same airspeed.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard confused civilian...

Got any other questions?

The other guys were quick on the draw...   

Did you know....?

• The first Mooney was a single seater... many are still flying around...
• The latest Mooney is built using a light weight steel tube frame, like the first one...
• The most popular engine in all Mooneys is the Lycoming IO360... 200hp...
• Some Mooneys make great retirement planes...
• The best Mooney is the one you own...

Best regards,

-a-

[0TreeLemur]

BTW- most of us are civilians too.   You can learn to fly and join us! 

 

[Confused]

Speed brakes! Aarrgh!

[carusoam]

No matter how high you are flying in a Mooney...

Deploy the speed brakes... you will be on the ground in minutes...

They are that efficient...   

Best regards,

-a-

[Confused]

How can 200 hp make the Mooney go faster than the bonanza? 

[Hank]

Just now, Confused said:

How can 200 hp make the Mooney go faster than the bonanza? 

Less drag from the airframe.

P.S. @Confused, my little Mooney only has 180 hp, but I cruise at more than 145 KTAS.

[Confused]

What is the useful load?

[Confused]

Oops. Meant to ask...what is the useful loads spec for the Mooney? 

[carusoam]

Some of the design goals achieved for the Mooney...

• Speed
• Efficiency
• Safety
• Enjoyable to fly
• Carry four people and baggage 
• Fly long distances
• Adept at both VFR and IFR flight
• Can be outfitted with O₂ systems, Air conditioning, or FIKI anti-ice...
• Choose what you like... 130 gallons of fuel and 1,100 pounds UL...
• Go TC and fly in the flight levels...

Best regards,

-a-

[Confused]

Most appreciated. 

[carusoam]

Wait...  don’t go yet...

Did you know...

The Mooney is...

• fastest
• four seat
• factory built
• naturally aspirated
• airplane
• on and off the planet?

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

You know what happens when you bring the throttle back..?

It gets better...

[larrynimmo]

The M20J with 200hp fuel injected Lycomming 4 cylinder IO360 will easily fly 160knot and if you work at it hard you can get over 165knot.   Yet if you are satisfied at 130k you can get about 20mpg (statue miles) useful load is about 930#s.   When people ask me if the plane can fly 4 people, my answer back is that you have a choice...you can either carry 4 people, or you can carry fuel for 2 or 3

[EricJ]

30 minutes ago, Confused said:

How can 200 hp make the Mooney go faster than the bonanza? 

The 200hp Mooneys are generally not faster than Bonanzas, but Bonanzas generally make a lot more power.

[carusoam]

Comparing select Mooneys to Bonanzas... is a fair comparison...

1) Start with an old Ovation... 

2) Built way back in the 90s...

3) Fly it around until the engine is fully worn out...  (this takes a really long time)

4) Reward that plane with a fresh overhaul and a new prop...  (why not, it deserves it)

5) Now, you are fully armed with 310 foot stompin’ horse power...

6) Your plane gets named the Standing O!

7) It can get off the ground in 800’

8) It can climb in thousands of feet per minute...

9) It can cruise 190kts if you like...

10) It can cruise efficiently at 175 kts...

11) It can cruise LOP, super efficiently at 165 kts...

12) Maybe, you don’t want to go full Long Body... and the M20J is just right for you... (mid body)

13) Let’s say you want to blow the gear doors off your friend’s Bonanza...

14) Get the M20J with the Ovation’s engine in it...

15) Hey, What’s that... a Missile... an M20J with 300hp using an IO550(A)... really?

16) If the Missile sounds like fun... how about the Rocket?  305hp available in the flight levels....

Tell me... what do you want to fly when your experience catches up with your dreams..?

Go Mooney!  

Fly NJ to Florida... non-stop if you like... (bring your family if you want)

Best regards,

-a-

[Pasturepilot]

3 hours ago, Confused said:

How can 200 hp make the Mooney go faster than the bonanza? 

Because we say it does. 

Don't take a Mooney owner's speed claims too seriously. Yeah, they're quick, but when folks start getting into speed comparisons, truth vanishes quicker than on a fishing pier. If a speed claim seems outlandish, make sure the owner isn't using MPH. Or just availing themself of alternate facts. If you're not familiar with fishing stories, then that explains a belief that 200 HP will push a Mooney faster than a Bonanza. (I own the 180 horse C model, and live by a slightly different set of truths than the fire breathing ovation, acclaim, and screaming eagle owners).

What we really are, is efficient. If we're a few knots slower than a Bonanza, it ain't the end of the world. We'll make up the difference by taking less time to top off the tanks before or after the flight. And we're also not slowed down at the FBO by paparazzi or autograph seekers if we land while wearing flashy sunglasses. 

[carusoam]

Let’s look at what a Bonanza uses for a motor...

It changed in the 60s...

They haven’t used a 200hp engine in half a century...

So to answer why a Bonaza with so many more hp goes faster than a Mooney..?

Call it brute force...

Brute force is attained at the cost of capital and fuel flow...

If you have a ton of dough...

Efficiency isn’t your thing...

Wire cable based control systems are OK with you...

And you don’t mind that running out of fuel also puts you past the limit of your weight and balance...  

People recognize your plane as the killer...

Go bananas!

Stop by our friends at BT... they can paint a rosier picture of why their chubby gal is the best...

I did find one example where the Bonanza was actually faster than the Mooney...  you may have to operate it at 20+k’...

Enjoy...

https://www.soloy.com/a36-bonanza.html

 

One of these days... we’re going to ask how big the budget is that is limiting the purchase... then we can compare a real Mooney and a real Bonanza of the same price...

We haven’t gotten there yet...  

usually this comes up in the first post...  

hi,

I have this budget...

I want to fly this far away...

I like IFR...

I have two kids...

I have no mountains in the way...

What’s the best Mooney for my budget and my mission?

 

Welcome to the world of type specific forums...  

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Ross Statham]

On 2/6/2021 at 11:33 PM, carusoam said:

Let’s look at what a Bonanza uses for a motor...

It changed in the 60s...

They haven’t used a 200hp engine in half a century...

So to answer why a Bonaza with so many more hp goes faster than a Mooney..?

Call it brute force...

Brute force is attained at the cost of capital and fuel flow...

If you have a ton of dough...

Efficiency isn’t your thing...

Wire cable based control systems are OK with you...

And you don’t mind that running out of fuel also puts you past the limit of your weight and balance...  

People recognize your plane as the killer...

Go bananas!

Stop by our friends at BT... they can paint a rosier picture of why their chubby gal is the best...

I did find one example where the Bonanza was actually faster than the Mooney...  you may have to operate it at 20+k’...

Enjoy...

https://www.soloy.com/a36-bonanza.html

 

One of these days... we’re going to ask how big the budget is that is limiting the purchase... then we can compare a real Mooney and a real Bonanza of the same price...

We haven’t gotten there yet...  

usually this comes up in the first post...  

hi,

I have this budget...

I want to fly this far away...

I like IFR...

I have two kids...

I have no mountains in the way...

What’s the best Mooney for my budget and my mission?

 

Welcome to the world of type specific forums...  

Best regards,

-a-

 

Appreciate your asking about comparing Mooneys and Bonanzas-- I've owned both an older Bonanza v-tail as well as two Mooneys.  Bonanzas and Mooneys are both considered great aircraft-- here's been a few of my other observations to add to what's already been very well said:  maintenance on my Bo' was more problematic, and expensive by far.  Probably due to my owning an older model, but others have chimed in on that topic. On the other hand, the American Bonanza Society is superb, and can help its members to diagnose and resolve most things that arise due to their store of knowledge.  Parts for Bonanzas are- well, they're expensive.  Mine had a Continental engine, like most, and I greatly prefer the longer time between overhaul (TBO) and lower maintenance issues I've had with my Lycoming engines on my Mooneys. 

Second for me was operating cost-- I burn 9.5-10 gallons per hour in my Mooney vs 14-16 gallons per hour in my Bo.  Multiply that 4-6 gallon difference by the 120 hours per year that I routinely fly, times the cost of fuel, and you'll quickly see why so many of us own Mooneys.  They are fast, fuel efficient and "slippery" aircraft.   Third for me was range- no comparison between my Bo and my Mooney.  I have six hours of fuel and typically cruise at 145-152 knots.  My Bo cruised a bit faster, but only had about a four hour range.  

But on the other hand, the interior of a Bonanza is wider and is considered by some people to be better, plus many Bonanzas have larger cargo and seating for up to six (technically, at least).    (Harvey Beech, who founded Beechcraft, was by all reports a "big guy".) Larger useful load, too.  And you can't argue with the success of the model-- in spite of it's (well-deserved) reputation of its tail falling off early on until the FAA stepped in and made them resolve the issue.

Finally as noted above, Mooneys do have an excellent safety record.   Hope this helps.

[Confused]

My position in the matter though unqualified, is (in celebrity terms) that the Mooney is simply Howard Hughs meets Ava Gardner . Right?

[Ross Statham]

13 minutes ago, Confused said:

My position in the matter though unqualified, is (in celebrity terms) that the Mooney is simply Howard Hughs meets Ava Gardner . Right?

Funny!  But I’m unqualified to answer that one.     But it IS funny how they all have personalities and typically end up getting named.

[carusoam]

I’m more of a Frank Sinatra fan...

Lived near Sinatra Dr. in Franky’s home town of Hoboken...

He had a plane too...  sort of a next step up from a Mooney... but didn’t last as long as Mooneys do.

Slim, sleek, classic!

-a-

[Yetti]

I can't physically fly Bonanzas or Piper products. Because of control interference with my legs.  But fit really well in the Mooney.   The other speed brakes are on the bottom of the wing.   Have wheels and tires attached.    Several ways to manage energy.