1963 M20C, For Sale, Asking $44,900 or Consider Trade.....SOLD!

[amillet]

On 1/28/2021 at 6:41 PM, Buckeyechuck said:

All this age related insurance stuff is making me nervous. I’ve been with Falcon for almost as long as I’ve had my Mooney (30 years). I’m reach 69 this year. Looks like I need to have a good discussion with Falcon to determine what my future with them will be. Do I need to look for another insurer?  

I’m the same age and have been with USAIG through Falcon for all of my 25 years of Mooney ownership. Just renewed with 10% increase 

[takair]

1 hour ago, M20B driver said:

Contact me if still for sale.  Brian.

bk34641@gmail.com

I flew a prospective buyer last week and I think it is in process of selling.  Suggest calling Jack if you would like to be on the contingency list. Lots of interest in the past week or two.  Very nice flying plane.

[Buckeyechuck]

On 2/27/2021 at 5:43 PM, amillet said:

I’m the same age and have been with USAIG through Falcon for all of my 25 years of Mooney ownership. Just renewed with 10% increase 

I discussed with my agent at Falcon.  I've been with Global for some time.  She stated she’s never had Global drop anyone due to age, and I should be good to go for a number of years yet. Can’t wait to see what it will cost as I get older. 

[steingar]

11 hours ago, Buckeyechuck said:

I discussed with my agent at Falcon.  I've been with Global for some time.  She stated she’s never had Global drop anyone due to age, and I should be good to go for a number of years yet. Can’t wait to see what it will cost as I get older. 

Good to hear.  Might bring this up with the guys at Avemco. Sounds like rubbish to me.

[Urs_Wildermuth]

On 1/14/2021 at 12:16 AM, Parker_Woodruff said:

It's the insurance company's job to discriminate against just about everything.  Loss history, age, certificates and ratings (or lack thereof), aircraft location.

Parker, what bugs me with this whole thing is that by doing what they are doing they are basically assuming an authority which imho they do not have.

The FAA is the authority who should be determining by the way of medicals, licensing, flight review, airplane status e.t.c. if someone is fit to exercise the privileges of pilot. Similarily, they are the ones who say if an airplane is airworthy or not.

Personally, I think something has to happen in the insurance regulation bloody quickly if GA does not want to end up in a situation where we will loose our planes to the simple fact that for most insurers our small planes are not worth the money. Or they want to get out of aviation altogether as I also heard in Europe, that lots of insurers who used to be happy to insure aviation have stopped doing so.

IMHO it can not be that it is insurers who openly question the FAA's determination if someone is capable to exercise the privileges or not. Otherwise, the FAA might as well turn licensing over to them.

Also I wonder whether this kind of discrimination is actually legal: Isn't there something like an age discrimination law in force in the US which prevents old age people to be discriminated against by denying them service?

The other bit is, this thing may well spread. You guys were complaining bitterly last year that insurance rates have gone through the roof, well, the same is happening in Europe too now. A lot of people will be in for a very rude surprise once renewal comes up. The reason? Bloody Boeing Max? What fault of ours is that if you please?

Again, I think the insurance crisis will be the single biggest challenge GA has to face, far worse than any other attempts to exterminate GA. We need to address it and we can't afford to linger. Otherwise, the FAA may well find that their licenses and airworthiness certification are no longer worth the paper they are printed on if there is nobody left to insure the holders.

 

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

On 2/27/2021 at 4:43 PM, amillet said:

I’m the same age and have been with USAIG through Falcon for all of my 25 years of Mooney ownership. Just renewed with 10% increase 

Stay with them.  Great company and generally committed to their long-term clients.

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 hour ago, Urs_Wildermuth said:

Parker, what bugs me with this whole thing is that by doing what they are doing they are basically assuming an authority which imho they do not have.

The FAA is the authority who should be determining by the way of medicals, licensing, flight review, airplane status e.t.c. if someone is fit to exercise the privileges of pilot. Similarily, they are the ones who say if an airplane is airworthy or not.

Personally, I think something has to happen in the insurance regulation bloody quickly if GA does not want to end up in a situation where we will loose our planes to the simple fact that for most insurers our small planes are not worth the money. Or they want to get out of aviation altogether as I also heard in Europe, that lots of insurers who used to be happy to insure aviation have stopped doing so.

IMHO it can not be that it is insurers who openly question the FAA's determination if someone is capable to exercise the privileges or not. Otherwise, the FAA might as well turn licensing over to them.

Also I wonder whether this kind of discrimination is actually legal: Isn't there something like an age discrimination law in force in the US which prevents old age people to be discriminated against by denying them service?

The other bit is, this thing may well spread. You guys were complaining bitterly last year that insurance rates have gone through the roof, well, the same is happening in Europe too now. A lot of people will be in for a very rude surprise once renewal comes up. The reason? Bloody Boeing Max? What fault of ours is that if you please?

Again, I think the insurance crisis will be the single biggest challenge GA has to face, far worse than any other attempts to exterminate GA. We need to address it and we can't afford to linger. Otherwise, the FAA may well find that their licenses and airworthiness certification are no longer worth the paper they are printed on if there is nobody left to insure the holders.

 

 

In a previous reply.  Who has ultimate ownership over the insurance company's money?  It's the shareholders.  They submit to authorities on reserves and claims management, but a the end of the day, it's not our money and I don't think we need to be saying we have a right to it.  The insurance companies pay for a lot of claims that never even get mentioned to the FAA, so unless we want to report each time someone starts an engine with a towbar attached, has a prop strike on a bounced landing, etc., then there's really no comparison here.

The auto insurers are allowed to call drivers in for medical exams and also non-renew them when claims get egregious.  You have to then self-insure or go into a state risk pool which is very expensive.

Fortunately in the US we aren't forced to purchase EU liability limits...$$$

[carusoam]

To an ordinary middle aged PP...

It does come across like age bias...

As our numbers show around here...

the older pilots are not suffering accident rates any worse than the younger pilots...

PP thoughts only, not an insurance statuary...

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

22 hours ago, Urs_Wildermuth said:

Parker, what bugs me with this whole thing is that by doing what they are doing they are basically assuming an authority which imho they do not have.

The FAA is the authority who should be determining by the way of medicals, licensing, flight review, airplane status e.t.c. if someone is fit to exercise the privileges of pilot. Similarily, they are the ones who say if an airplane is airworthy or not.

Personally, I think something has to happen in the insurance regulation bloody quickly if GA does not want to end up in a situation where we will loose our planes to the simple fact that for most insurers our small planes are not worth the money. Or they want to get out of aviation altogether as I also heard in Europe, that lots of insurers who used to be happy to insure aviation have stopped doing so.

IMHO it can not be that it is insurers who openly question the FAA's determination if someone is capable to exercise the privileges or not. Otherwise, the FAA might as well turn licensing over to them.

Also I wonder whether this kind of discrimination is actually legal: Isn't there something like an age discrimination law in force in the US which prevents old age people to be discriminated against by denying them service?

The other bit is, this thing may well spread. You guys were complaining bitterly last year that insurance rates have gone through the roof, well, the same is happening in Europe too now. A lot of people will be in for a very rude surprise once renewal comes up. The reason? Bloody Boeing Max? What fault of ours is that if you please?

Again, I think the insurance crisis will be the single biggest challenge GA has to face, far worse than any other attempts to exterminate GA. We need to address it and we can't afford to linger. Otherwise, the FAA may well find that their licenses and airworthiness certification are no longer worth the paper they are printed on if there is nobody left to insure the holders.

 

 

I agree with everything you said, but I wouldn't know how to solve the problem to make the insurance companies do as you describe, and many of us wish, other than to nationalize insurance, and I bet few of us would be supportive of something like that.  

Also, I really don't see how raising rates on small GA should have anything to do with the Boeing max, any more than when the exon Valdez spilled a lot of oil should raise our insurance rates.  True the insurance companies are suffering, but chasing away another population surely can't help.  Why not just raise the rates accordingly on those who fly Boeings?  (the airlines, who also fly other makes, and therefore raising it on the airlines, thus raising it on the passengers).  surely there is not enough insurance money in whole in small GA to make dent in total money available in carrier insurance.  Even if they triple our rates I wouldn't think it would make a dent.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I’ve been asked a few times what it would be like to start a risk retention group in the face of difficult underwriting. I’ve basically said this:

- Even if we got a nice pool together, the rates would be far above what people would want to pay.

- If we can’t save the majority of pilots money, why would they switch when there is regulated insurance?

- The last time an aviation risk retention group was started because everyone was unhappy with rates, it didn’t last.

http://go.sterlingrisk.com/l/34392/2018-08-01/qf5tx6/34392/316657/Important_Info_for_Former_AAIRRG_Insureds.pdf

[chriscalandro]

When you crash, just set up a go fund me.

[loul]

Assuming this has been sold? If not I might be interested. I'm looking to upgrade from a C150 if he'd be interested in a slow, local but solid flyer as a partial trade.

[carusoam]

2 minutes ago, loul said:

Assuming this has been sold? If not I might be interested. I'm looking to upgrade from a C150 if he'd be interested in a slow, local but solid flyer as a partial trade.

Welcome aboard Lou,

Check the details at the top of the thread... there is a phone number... for the seller.   
 

The information is posted here by a friend, Rob.... @takair

Speaking directly with the seller would be an important shortcut...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[takair]

3 hours ago, loul said:

Assuming this has been sold? If not I might be interested. I'm looking to upgrade from a C150 if he'd be interested in a slow, local but solid flyer as a partial trade.

It’s under contract...but not quite sold.  I know he would not do a 150.  His heart is set on a Cherokee 180 at this point.

[FlyingFool]

Did it sell?

 

[takair]

16 minutes ago, FlyingFool said:

Did it sell?

 

Closer than ever.  99% likely.  If all goes according to plan, I will mark it sold on Tuesday....

[atrosa]

Following

[Joe Osgood]

Why note a waver for unintentional gear up landings. At least the plain has most coverage needed. 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Joe!

Not sure exactly what you are asking about... but, the the title has just been marked “sold”...

If that answers your question...

If not, sounds like an insurance question...  we can ask our insurance guy, Parker about...

Best regards,

-a-