Mooney Factory Update

[Mooney in Oz]

Courtesy of The Mooney Flyer, page 5, September 2020 edition. (www.themooneyflyer.com)

Hopefully, some good will come out of this.

Mooney Update - August 21

Jonathan Pollack is the temporary CEO of Mooney. He has been running Mooney for the past 6 months. No additional details at this time.

In the short term, Mooney will only be providing Parts & Service; not building airplanes. There is only a 10% gross margin on the Acclaim. They need to right the ship before restarting the manufacturing of airplanes. Current owner wishes to manufacture Mooneys in China and Africa.

Mooney is fixing the G1000 issue. They will also offer a “carbon cowl”, saving 15 lbs.

Jonathan wants to increase the useful load by 400-500 lbs. He did not have a timeframe for this. This opens the possibility for a ballistic parachute or increased cabin space.

Mooney will joint venture with an outside company to refurbish and recertify those airplanes. This could result in more affordable M20s.

Mooney wants to create an Advisory Board including the Mooney Community. We think this is a good step.

 

[carusoam]

Great work, Victor!

This needs its own thread...

(Another copy showed up in a Bravo thread...)

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

I have been biting my tongue about the GW increase since before I was in Bathurst in 18 and met you Victor, but NDA prevented me all this time from saying anything about it. Now that Jonny has put it in the public domain, this could be a real breath of fresh air into Mooney. I have seen the prototype parts mounted on the wing and nose to allow LB's 3768# and it can be a retrofit. Ill let Mooney fill in the details as it is their place. Lets just hope they push the ball over the finish line.

Problems sales have identified with Mooney

1) GW .... this would check that box

2) No parachute .. Autoland would check that box

3) Arrogant competitors ... box checked

4) Better sales/delivery experience ...still needs work

5) Price...lower than competition, box checked.

6) better presence at events (darned we came close a couple of years ago to having one in Australia but Jeff Magnus was "shot down" on the idea)

3 years ago Lance Phillips tried to implement a customer advisory board, I am glad Jonny now sees the need.

[LevelWing]

As a Mooney fan, and overall general aviation fan, I'm excited by the prospects of this and hope for the best. It would be great to see a significant increase in useful load and it would likely result in the Mooney market going up, especially if it can be retrofit.

That said, I'm not a fan of them wanting to manufacture aircraft in China and Africa. Given the current geopolitical state of China and their economic status, I'm just not convinced this is a viable long term option. In addition, China has a reputation for imposing requirements on businesses wishing to manufacture there that aren't always in line with trade pacts with other countries. As far as Africa, there's only a few places they could even really consider but logistics is still difficult and the skilled labor market isn't what it is in other, more developed parts of the world.

I really would like them to succeed and I'm rooting for them. Their success is general aviation's success and we'll benefit from it.

 

[mike_elliott]

The long term goal of the Meijeing group when they purchased Mooney was to 1) develop a trainer for the infant Chinese market 2) provide GA planes to the Chinese market at the best possible price point which means manufactured in China. As a Chinese company, the fears of trade pacs when manufactured in China would be mitigated as well as China imposing requirements on itself. Labor  problems such as skilled labor are cured with education and a desire to work and learn, something lost it seems here at times. I can only assume to achieve this goal is why Mejeing group retains an ownership interest. 

/Tesla fan boy mode=On

Elon Musks' company Tesla has totally disrupted the "old school" "thats the way we have always done it" process of Detroit. They have an unbelievably successful operation in China now, defeating the masses of Chinese owned automakers in China in sales numbers. Its good to see an AMERICAN company producing products the Chinese are buying vs the other way around.

/Tesla fan boy mode=off

[LevelWing]

2 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

The long term goal of the Meijeing group when they purchased Mooney was to 1) develop a trainer for the infant Chinese market 2) provide GA planes to the Chinese market at the best possible price point which means manufactured in China. As a Chinese company, the fears of trade pacs when manufactured in China would be mitigated as well as China imposing requirements on itself. Labor  problems such as skilled labor are cured with education and a desire to work and learn, something lost it seems here at times. I can only assume to achieve this goal is why Mejeing group retains an ownership interest. 

/Tesla fan boy mode=On

Elon Musks' company Tesla has totally disrupted the "old school" "thats the way we have always done it" process of Detroit. They have an unbelievably successful operation in China now, defeating the masses of Chinese owned automakers in China in sales numbers. Its good to see an AMERICAN company producing products the Chinese are buying vs the other way around.

/Tesla fan boy mode=off

I understand what the goal of the Meijeing Group was when they purchased Mooney, but to date they have not been successful in their goals. That doesn't negate the fact that China has a habit of forcing intellectual property transfers and incentivizing subsidies under certain conditions, some of which are against World Trade Organization rules. Additionally, COVID has exposed supply chain weaknesses. So many companies have their supply chains that either originate in, or transfer through, China and when the pandemic hit, it shut a lot of that down. With little to no diversification in supply chain assets, it left a lot of companies unable to meet their customer's demands (I'm also aware there is more to it than that). I also said the skilled labor market was an issue in Africa, not China.

[Boilermonkey]

That's great news.  I hope they can transform the GA market.

[Missile=Awesome]

Just now, 1980Mooney said:

You left out the biggest box.  Cost.  Gross Margin is direct cost before SGA (Sales, General and Administrative).  That means a base Acclaim Ultra costs $720,000 in materials and labor.  If you assume that the power plant, prop, avionics, aluminum, tires, etc, third party parts cost $400,000 then labor is $320,000 per plane.  If the average fully loaded labor cost with medical and benefits (holidays, vacation, payroll tax, etc) is $30/hour that means there is over 10,000 manhours in a plane.  

A 2014 Kerrville Daily Times interview at the plant upon its reopening said "the 18-step production line, and when done, will include about 12,000 individual parts manufactured at the plant in Kerrville, held together with about 60,000 rivets plus another 600 parts produced at third-party facilities."  If it takes 10 minutes on average to manufacture each of the 12,000 parts (handle, measure, mark, punch, cut, drill, weld, QA, etc.) that is 2,000 manhours.  If it takes 5 minutes to fully set every rivet (measure, mark, drill, align, clamp, set, QA, etc) then that is 5,000 manhours.  Then they make their own interior and upholstery, and paint the plane.  Assembly is highly labor intensive.  I can see how the manhours add up.

Most businesses need at least a 30% gross margin.  So they can raise the price to about a $1 million.  Or they can move manufacturing to a low cost country as highlighted above.  Or they can cut the labor with a Grumman Tiger like laminated wing....or fixed gear...or maybe go composite.

But then it would not be the Mooney we desire.  If you want a riveted old school plane built in the US then it will realistically cost about a $1 million.  Textron Bonanza has the same challenge which they solve with high price.  If you want an "Elon Musk shake up the market" plane then you go with a Cirrus like approach.

You are talking to a guy that thinks a Tesla is a “bargain”...so there’s that...

[Davidv]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

I have been biting my tongue about the GW increase since before I was in Bathurst in 18 and met you Victor, but NDA prevented me all this time from saying anything about it. Now that Jonny has put it in the public domain, this could be a real breath of fresh air into Mooney. I have seen the prototype parts mounted on the wing and nose to allow LB's 3768# and it can be a retrofit. Ill let Mooney fill in the details as it is their place. Lets just hope they push the ball over the finish line.

Problems sales have identified with Mooney

1) GW .... this would check that box

2) No parachute .. Autoland would check that box

3) Arrogant competitors ... box checked

4) Better sales/delivery experience ...still needs work

5) Price...lower than competition, box checked.

6) better presence at events (darned we came close a couple of years ago to having one in Australia but Jeff Magnus was "shot down" on the idea)

3 years ago Lance Phillips tried to implement a customer advisory board, I am glad Jonny now sees the need.

Thanks Mike, could be very good news.  Just one question, any changes to landing gear or just the ones you’ve mentioned to help with lift?  Just curious since the POH currently calls for a gear inspection after any overweight landing.  I know part of this requirement is CYA but seems like a lot of extra weight for discs...

[Mcstealth]

Phillipines would be an alternative to China. 

[Davidv]

Just now, Missile=Awesome said:

You are talking to a guy that thinks a Tesla is a “bargain”...so there’s that...

I got very nervous about your statement until I realized you said “a tesla” and not “tesla”

[mike_elliott]

riddle me this...why did it take less than 3000 hrs to build a K and Bravo under Bob K's tutleage and it now takes close to 9K hrs? The  avionics have to be less labor intense being integrated. the composites cannot add 6K of man hrs to the plane. The fully loaded labor cost is much higher than 30/hr on top of that. Cost obviously has to be addressed, and certainly can be with the right workforce and team. Putting go pro camera's on workers wasnt the answer as Mejeing found out. Perhaps a culture of the skilled labor needs to be addressed where an honest days pay for an honest days work with less QA issues (paint has been huge here) and can be  solved with the right management team.

[mike_elliott]

3 minutes ago, Missile=Awesome said:

You are talking to a guy that thinks a Tesla is a “bargain”...so there’s that...

I was told by a number here that it was overpriced at $250/share last year. I have 10x since then. Gotta love a free Model X..

[Missile=Awesome]

Anti Fanboy Tesla rant-“on”.  Can you buy a three for “base price”?  I don’t think so.  If I cared I would “know so”, but the three is fugly.  My VW Arteon is NOT.  No range anxiety.  Anti Fanboy Tesla rant-“off”.

If I want Tesla advertising/marketing I will pursue it...

Thanks.

[mike_elliott]

2 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Thanks Mike, could be very good news.  Just one question, any changes to landing gear or just the ones you’ve mentioned to help with lift?  Just curious since the POH currently calls for a gear inspection after any overweight landing.  I know part of this requirement is CYA but seems like a lot of extra weight for discs...

All new, no more disks. I have photos, but they are not for me to share publically. The upgrade I am sure will not be inexpensive, but will be the #1 upgrade on everyones list that have inner gear doors.

[pwnel]

49 minutes ago, LevelWing said:

 I also said the skilled labor market was an issue in Africa, not China.

Folks please, Africa is a continent.  It has 54 countries. Some of them (like South Africa) with advanced industry.  For those of you familiar with the NTC market, MGL avionics and Sling aircraft are South African products - and wildly successful at that internationally.

[Missile=Awesome]

1 minute ago, mike_elliott said:

I was told by a number here that it was overpriced at $250/share last year. I have 10x since then. Gotta love a free Model X..

Tesla, The car for the masses...

Riiiiiiiiiiiigt.

[LevelWing]

Just now, pwnel said:

Folks please, Africa is a continent.  It has 54 countries. Some of them (like South Africa) with advanced industry.  For those of you familiar with the NTC market, MGL avionics and Sling aircraft are South African products - and wildly successful at that internationally.

I'm not sure if you meant to direct this to me, but I am well aware that it is a continent with 54 countries. My point remains that there are only a few places in Africa that would have the underlying infrastructure to even come remotely close to handling a production aircraft like Mooney, South Africa being one of them. 

[Missile=Awesome]

Just now, pwnel said:

Folks please, Africa is a continent.  It has 54 countries. Some of them (like South Africa) with advanced industry.  For those of you familiar with the NTC market, MGL avionics and Sling aircraft are South African products - and wildly successful at that internationally.

I guess the satellite flyover night images are wrong...

[mike_elliott]

1 minute ago, Missile=Awesome said:

Tesla, The car for the masses...

Riiiiiiiiiiiigt.

Its ok not to like them. GM, Ford, Fiat Chrysler sure dont. They dont have an answer. VW have entered talks with Tesla to have Tesla provide the skateboard and technology so they can bolt on their own logo on sheetmetal. Then It will be ok for you to like them. But its ok not to like them now. Technology is not for everyone.

[Missile=Awesome]

2 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

All new, no more disks. I have photos, but they are not for me to share publically. The upgrade I am sure will not be inexpensive, but will be the #1 upgrade on everyones list that have inner gear doors.

Just happy about the doors open and parts flowing.  No inner gear doors so yawn.  Rooting for doors to remain open for awhile.  Build some “vintage” fuel selectors and sort some gear actuators while you are rummaging through the NOS area...

[Davidv]

14 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

All new, no more disks. I have photos, but they are not for me to share publically. The upgrade I am sure will not be inexpensive, but will be the #1 upgrade on everyones list that have inner gear doors.

Very interesting!

[Missile=Awesome]

Just now, mike_elliott said:

Its ok not to like them. GM, Ford, Fiat Chrysler sure dont. They dont have an answer. VW have entered talks with Tesla to have Tesla provide the skateboard and technology so they can bolt on their own logo on sheetmetal. Then It will be ok for you to like them. But its ok not to like them now. Technology is not for everyone.

If it is not fugly and has a reasonable price-point great.  The long game is to outlaw ICE in cities and price average citizens out of individual ownership with driverless cars arriving when requested by urban dwellers.  F-your “future tech”....In fact, F “your future”...

Laughing at the condescending “I am Tech...you are lowly anti-tech deplorable”.  Some tech is great.  Some tech is art.  Some tech is just tech for techs sake.  Eyes wide open.  Glad stock is doing well.  Hope “it” continues.  I want elitists to continue to have a place to buy their vehicles while scoffing at knuckle dragging ice users...

[Missile=Awesome]

Now Jetpacks to commute.  That is tech I can strap on and get behind me...

[mike_elliott]

are you assuming I am a leftist? Man you dont know me at all. I simply like best in class products like Mooney, 0-60 in 2.6 secs, NO range anxiety, and free market capitalism along with school choice.

Shame on your ad homen leftist attack.