Insurance Renewal Time...

[bnicolette]

I've gotten confused during this thread but I did have another question answered today.  

Smooth limits only affect passengers you have with you in the aircraft.  Right now, (non smooth limits) the policy would pay up $100,000 per passenger for their bodily injury you are held responsible for, but up to $1,000,000 per occurrence for property damage and bodily injury to someone outside of the aircraft you are held responsible for. 

 

[Becca]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

And your current insurance policy possibly includes coverage for use of non-owned aircraft (up to certain number of seats and horsepower and category/class).  So check your current policy to see if it meets your needs.

[Becca]

Now, in the case of subragation, what happens is that insurance pays out $20k, then they sue the pilot for the negligence that cost them the $20k.  Compare this to a homeowners association claim.  My house flooded because of a faulty maintenance job on my air conditioner.  My insurance paid me for the damage caused by the flood, but then they sued the maitnenance company for their negligence that cost them money (typically your insurance policy has you give them the right to these suits).  That's why subragation is common in rental aircraft policies, because the policy is really to protect the owner of the airplane, not the renter.  E.G., I rent an airplane and crash it hurting a passenger, the company that owns the airplane gets paid by the insurance company and if the passenger sues, the insurance company pays out to the passenger, thus protecting the rental company - however, then the insurance company decides the accident is really the fault of a negligent pilot who is not their client, so they turn around and sue the pilot to recoup their loss of the insurance pay out.  I think subragation clauses usually don't exist for named pilots, so you are protected by this as a private owner.  And if you rent, you can buy supplimental rental insurance.

[201er]

^Sounds like a scam to sucker us into buying renter's insurance

[jetdriven]

~

[Parker_Woodruff]

Becca,

Subrogation does happen - of course it has to be worth the insurance co's time and money for it to happen. Which obviously depends on the loss.

Anoter consideration outside the physical damage to the plane aspect is that the Named and Additional Insureds have liability coverage for lawsuits against them. But the renter/non-owner can be at risk of a liability suit in addition to the owner/flight school operator/etc.

While I obviously can't discuss claims I see, subrogation happens and I've seen it more than once.

[DonMuncy]

I spent a lot of time working as an attorney in insurance companies, although not in any claims involving aviation. All the ones I dealt with generally only considered 3 factors in whether to file a subrogation suit. First, what is the anticipated cost in bringing the suit. Second, what is the likelyhood of prevailing in the case. (How sure are you you can establish negligence against the other guy.) And third, what is the likelihood of collecting on a judgment. Here in Texas, with the extremely liberal exempt property status, a guy who is renting a light plane is extremely unlikely to be able to pay any judgment. 

[tyrefoote]

Just wondering, Is it possible to get a $1Mill Umbrella through your homeowners policy that would add a liability buffer in the event of a lawsuit due to an aviation accident ?

[AmigOne]

Regarding all these different insurance quotes, besides the obvious hull values/deductible differences, it seems to me that in several instances we may be comparing apples and oranges because we do not know the pilot's ratings and experience. For example I know that instruments/commercial/ATP, lots of time in retract or in type, etc can make a substantial difference in premiums.

[BigTex]

I too went with Airpower for the same reasons Anthony mentioned. They had the best prices and TJ was by far the most responsive agent I dealt with.

[fantom]

Guys...why not give Parker at Falcon a shot???

[Parker_Woodruff]

Guys...why not give Parker at Falcon a shot???

Eh, call Cliff at Falcon Kerrville if you're a MAPA member. 800-880-4545

I mostly do business/commercial aircraft and General Liab.

I'm always open to quoting new biz and insure quite a few Mooneys, but in general try to keep those who specialize with a certain program in control of that type of biz.

[N9453V]

Eh, call Cliff at Falcon Kerrville if you're a MAPA member. 800-880-4545

I mostly do business/commercial aircraft and General Liab.

I'm always open to quoting new biz and insure quite a few Mooneys, but in general try to keep those who specialize with a certain program in control of that type of biz.

I've been dealing with Cliff at Falcon since I bought my G model in 2010 and he has always been great to deal with. When I renewed in July, my premium was under $1100 for $50k hull value, $1M liability and no deductible. Cliff was able to reduce the premium due to my getting my Commercial certificate even though I had a claim for hail damage on the ailerons.

-Andrew

[fantom]

I've been dealing with Cliff at Falcon since I bought my G model in 2010 and he has always been great to deal with.

Ditto, and I've used Cliff for about 10 years. He's first class.

[carusoam]

++ Cliff and Brenda.

They recently (last year) gave me advice (who pays for what) on moving an aircraft out of the way of a hurricane.

Something east coasters and gulf people may want to be aware of.

Best regards,

-a-

[scottfromiowa]

Nice update:

Established LLC and there are now TWO Equity Members. Paperwork with Establishment of LLC was minimal in Iowa and cost was $50. AOPA charged $200 for adding new pilot to insurance through renewal in December and quoted $1700 for renewal. Completed online application with Falcon with MAPA#. Cliff quoted $1352 with Chartis. $70k hull $0 deduct for motion/not in motion. $1M/$100k. We are going with Chartis/Cliff/Falcon at renewal. I recommend completing online Quote with Falcon. We saved $350+ and with the establishment of the LLC/Co Owner my annual insurance went down a bunch. If you are becoing depressed with the cost of flying to point of selling plane consider an LLC and taking on a Co-Equity Owner...Scott

[Parker_Woodruff]

We are going with Chartis/Cliff/Falcon at renewal. I recommend completing online Quote with Falcon. We saved $350+ and with the establishment of the LLC/Co Owner my annual insurance went down a bunch. If you are becoing depressed with the cost of flying to point of selling plane consider an LLC and taking on a Co-Equity Owner...Scott

Glad Cliff got you squared away - to be expected from him. I don't think the LLC changed the dynamic that much. Your best defense is high liability limits from a good insurance company.

[Seth]

I know I'm late to the party on this thread, but in my four years of ownership I started with AOPA and then in time moved over to Parker. I endorse him (and I like that new paint job!).

AOPA was higher, but my rates also dropped tremendously as my time increased. At this point in my flying career and time in type, my rates are not going to drop that much further.

Parker, at what age does your age start wroking against you? 55? 60? 80? I'm 30 now. Is there a sweet spot for age that you've noticed? Not too young so you don't make a foolish mistake, not too old so your health becomes an issue?

Take care,

-Seth

[Parker_Woodruff]

Parker, at what age does your age start wroking against you? 55? 60? 80? I'm 30 now. Is there a sweet spot for age that you've noticed? Not too young so you don't make a foolish mistake, not too old so your health becomes an issue?

Take care,

-Seth

For a Mooney M20J / Missile? 70 years old will start being a hassle with a new company. Best to get with a good company with the coverage you need at age 65-69 and stick with them before turning 70. They won't typically drop you if you stay with them every year after ~70 years old.

[Seth]

For a Mooney M20J / Missile? 70 years old will start being a hassle with a new company. Best to get with a good company with the coverage you need at age 65-69 and stick with them before turning 70. They won't typically drop you if you stay with them every year after ~70 years old.

Good to know - thank you for the quick respnose.