Insurance Renewal Time...

[Parker_Woodruff]

Just a note...I work for Falcon as does Cliff - we're on the same team (my business is mostly just focused to commercial and turbine risks, but I also insure a lot of Mooneys and Pleasure & business pistons for my aviation friends & acquaintances).

If you're with Cliff, you're in a good place!

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: Becca

I purposely didn't call Falcon agents in other cities because I assumed like other franchises, they probably have regional turf and they would just refer you back to the office that's local to you.  But that is an assumption.  Am I wrong?

 

[gregwatts]

I use Travers and Associates

[lahso]

I use Nationwide for all my insurance, and my agent (who is also a CFI) got me a good deal with Old Republic.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

Just a note...I work for Falcon as does Cliff - we're on the same team (my business is mostly just focused to commercial and turbine risks, but I also insure a lot of Mooneys and Pleasure & business pistons for my aviation friends & acquaintances).

If you're with Cliff, you're in a good place!

[fantom]

Quote: Cruiser

perhaps you could sent Parker Woodruff (a memeber of this forum) a PM and get a qoute from him?

[Bennett]

I'd like some comments from our older pilot owners.  I'm just about 77 now, have several thousand hours, mostly in Mooneys, SEL, SES, Instrument, Commercial, and no incidents over my 25+ years of flying - all across the US, just about all the Caribbean islands, Alaska, Canada, Mexico - both mainland and Baja, and some flying in Europe and Africa.  Yet when I have approached various underwriters/agents/brokers, they essentially roll their eyes, and say" Stay where you are, you're too old for our programs".  I'm in Avemco now, and the premiums are not too bad, but they won't write "smooth" limits, and I know of no excess maket that woulkd drop down to pick up over their sub-limits.  My concern is twofold: One, I don't want to risk the few assets I've managed to accumulate over time, and two, and most importantly, I don't want my passengers who are generally friends and relatives to not have the benefit of reasonable insurance limits should I do something stupid in my apparent dotage. By the way I work full time in my business, and I believe I am in good health.  I had prostrate cancer over 7 years ago, without any sign of recurrence or after effects, but of course, I have a special issuance license, which simply means I submit a PSA test score every year.  Any suggestions?

[PTK]

Based on my experience the best quotes I have received are indeed from AOPA. $1480 for smooth limits. Falcon has been consistently coming in very, very high for some reason.

[DonMuncy]

I know that Falcon, and I suspect, AOPA do not sell insurance. They solicit quotes from insurance companies who do sell insurance. Admittedly, an agent might be able to hype your situation a little to induce the ins co to offer a lower rate, but for the most part, those companies are basing their rates on, aircraft, hours, claims history and the like. If it were possible to get AOPA or Falcon to both get rates from the same three ins cos, (and you can't) I would bet that they would both get the same rates quoted from the same coampany. What you are really getting is an agent who will offer you good service and go to bat for you when a claim is necessary. I use Falcon, and are very happy with them, but no on the basis that their rates are better.

[MooneyMitch]

So, let me understand this then.  When I get a quote from a broker [shall remain nameless] that is almost $1K higher than my quote from AOPA, then that extra $1K is for service, should I ever need it?  Hmmm, that's a lot to pay for service!

[KSMooniac]

I just renewed last week and my agent said that I've pretty much bottomed-out now and rates will likely start going up again after 7 years of declines due to competition in the industry.  Hopefully that won't be the case, but all we can do is hope for continued competition.

My metrics:  ~900 TT, 650 or so in Mooneys, PP, IR, $115k hull, hangared.  $1m/100k for $1271.

[DonMuncy]

Mitch,

It is my impression (and I admit I could be wrong), that when AOPA gives you a quote, that is actually a quote from XYZ company, and if that unnamed broker got a quote from XYZ company, then (presuming XYZ was given the same information about you and your plane), the unnamed broker would get the same quote. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

[PTK]

What service might Falcon provide that is any different than AOPA or someone else? If there is ever a claim, God forbid, it is handled by the underwriter. So as long as the underwriter is a highly rated co then it's all the same service isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong!

[John Pleisse]

I have always seen a wide disparagement between AOPA and other brokers. I have always found AOPA to be extrodinarily high. Perhaps times have changed and they are worth another look.

Don (re: If it were possible to get AOPA or Falcon to both get rates from the same three ins cos, (and you can't), do insurance brokers have exclusivity with large companies? Collusion issues? Why? Is this the x-factor when shopping?

[DonMuncy]

You are correct that the company actually insuring you is the one who pays, but the agent can apply pressure to get them to "get a second bid on a repair", or encourage them to replace with new parts rather than repair, etc. There are numerous decisions made by the adjuster working on your claim which can affect you in multiple ways. These can include how quickly a check is issued, or perhaps if it were a really close case as to whether to repair or declare it a total loss. Having an agent with whom you have a good relationship, can give you an edge. No, your agent will not convince an insurer to pay far more than a loss is worth, but it would not surprise me if a good agent might induce them to send your plane to Maxwell or Dugosh rather than forcing you to have it repaired at Podunk. 

[MooneyMitch]

Oh Don, I'm not disagreeing with you.  I'm just sayin' all things being equal in the quotes, why the heck is broker XYZ asking for another $1K for the same thing? ....and the $1K is a bit of on exageration on my part, but it is substantial regardless.

 

 

[jetdriven]

I heard that if you submit quotes through an agent then the insurance companies will not give quotes to the second agent.  Plus all the insurance companies access a database where they know who quoted whom and how much.    

Sounds  like a cartel. 

[MooneyMitch]

It always pays to shop.  For me each year, on car, home, motorcycle and airplane.  Remember, "You're In Good Hands With Allstate".................Really?

[jwilkins]

1. Will one of the insurance professionals here chime in with the way Aviation Insurance companies and brokers work? it's not the same as non-aviation insurance. I've been through the discussions many times when I was involved with buying aviation insurance for a flying club back in NY. I don't want to try to explain this from memory, and things might have changed over the years. There is, or was, a system of establishing agency so that multiple brokers would not shop the same companies on behalf of one customer. There are not many companies that work direct with individuals and I never saw a cost savings from them anyway. They have to pay the broker or pay employess. Either way there is a cost. I personally would trust a broker to help me with a claim more than an employee, but I guess that depends on the individuals involved. Never have had an aviation claim, so no personal experience here.

2. I've quoted AOPA many times and they never had the lowest quote for me. Once they were wildly not competitive, sometimes about the same. I've been working with Cliff at Falcon for a couple years now and find the prices competitive, and the advice on different aspects of coverage to be very useful. When I have questions about coverage options and exactly what the implications are of various additional insured clauses for hanger keepers and instructors I always get quick clear answers. When I switched planes to the K Cliff told me that the insurance company that insured my F really did not like turbo planes. I accepted a quote he put together for me with an alternate company and told him we'd go ahead with it. The next day he had another proposal at a lower cost.

3. I've heard the same story about insurance rates being about bottomed out now. We'll see what happens.

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: allsmiles

What service might Falcon provide that is any different than AOPA or someone else? If there is ever a claim, God forbid, it is handled by the underwriter. So as long as the underwriter is a highly rated co then it's all the same service isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong!

[DonMuncy]

Mitch,

Naturally, I can't say for sure, but my guess is that you are getting quotes from two different insurors. Like Jetdriven says above, I think that once an insurer issues a quote on N1234 to agent X, they will not then issue a quote on N1234 to agent Y. I have always thought it was a bit of a strange system, as you really can't compare whether broker X or Y can get your the best deal. Every year, Falcon sends me about 3 quotes from 3 different companies, and frequently they can be quite different. And my guess is that if Falcon requested quotes from every insurer ( I really do not think there are that many of them), the differences might be even greater. I'm guessing, but I'll bet that Falcon knows that these three companies give the best rates on Mooneys, and requests quotes from those 3.

Come on someone. There must be people on her who know more about this than I do. Hop in with your knowledge.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: Mitch

Oh Don, I'm not disagreeing with you.  I'm just sayin' all things being equal in the quotes, why the heck is broker XYZ asking for another $1K for the same thing? ....and the $1K is a bit of on exageration on my part, but it is substantial regardless.

 

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: jetdriven

I heard that if you submit quotes through an agent then the insurance companies will not give quotes to the second agent.  Plus all the insurance companies access a database where they know who quoted whom and how much.    

Sounds  like a cartel. 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: DonMuncy

Mitch,

Naturally, I can't say for sure, but my guess is that you are getting quotes from two different insurors. Like Jetdriven says above, I think that once an insurer issues a quote on N1234 to agent X, they will not then issue a quote on N1234 to agent Y. I have always thought it was a bit of a strange system, as you really can't compare whether broker X or Y can get your the best deal. Every year, Falcon sends me about 3 quotes from 3 different companies, and frequently they can be quite different. And my guess is that if Falcon requested quotes from every insurer ( I really do not think there are that many of them), the differences might be even greater. I'm guessing, but I'll bet that Falcon knows that these three companies give the best rates on Mooneys, and requests quotes from those 3.

Come on someone. There must be people on her who know more about this than I do. Hop in with your knowledge.

[John Pleisse]

One more time..... do agents/brokers have exclusivity deals with large companies? E-g....are AOPA and Falcon both able to use the resources of or get quaotes from, say,,, AIG? Or not? Is it all in who agencies are allowed to shop?