Electric Gear Question

[MBDiagMan]

I have a ‘67 F built in Dec. ‘66.  I think it was originally a Johnson Bar, but now has electric.  Hurt my shoulder and had to get an electric gear plane.

I have had some gear problems, but them sorted out and was very pleased.  I went up the other day and the gear would not come up.  Circuit Breaker was tripped.  It wold not reset.  I found the emergency gear actuation lever forward.  When I pulled it back,  the gear worked normally.  The gear extended normally and got on the ground safely.

When the red button at the bottom of the emergency lever travel is depressed should that result in circuit breaker tripping.  Everything seemed fine as I left it, but I am thinking maybe I should jack it and make sure the emergency system will extend properly before flying again.  Am I being too over cautious?

[ShuRugal]

  On 5/17/2020 at 6:27 PM, MBDiagMan said:

I have a ‘67 F built in Dec. ‘66.  I think it was originally a Johnson Bar, but now has electric.  Hurt my shoulder and had to get an electric gear plane.
I have had some gear problems, but them sorted out and was very pleased.  I went up the other day and the gear would not come up.  Circuit Breaker was tripped.  It wold not reset.  I found the emergency gear actuation lever forward.  When I pulled it back,  the gear worked normally.  The gear extended normally and got on the ground safely.
When the red button at the bottom of the emergency lever travel is depressed should that result in circuit breaker tripping.  Everything seemed fine as I left it, but I am thinking maybe I should jack it and make sure the emergency system will extend properly before flying again.  Am I being too over cautious?

the fact that the manual extension was engaged without you intending it to be is enough that I would check it out if it were my plane.

[Niko182]

The mooney system works that if the emergency gear level cover is open, its going to pop the circuit breaker. What you're describing is normal, at least from what my mechanic said.

[Ragsf15e]

  On 5/17/2020 at 6:27 PM, MBDiagMan said:

I have a ‘67 F built in Dec. ‘66.  I think it was originally a Johnson Bar, but now has electric.  Hurt my shoulder and had to get an electric gear plane.

I have had some gear problems, but them sorted out and was very pleased.  I went up the other day and the gear would not come up.  Circuit Breaker was tripped.  It wold not reset.  I found the emergency gear actuation lever forward.  When I pulled it back,  the gear worked normally.  The gear extended normally and got on the ground safely.

When the red button at the bottom of the emergency lever travel is depressed should that result in circuit breaker tripping.  Everything seemed fine as I left it, but I am thinking maybe I should jack it and make sure the emergency system will extend properly before flying again.  Am I being too over cautious?

Expand  

Mine will still actuate electrically with that slide forward (68F).  It’s very exciting and tough to forget because it also windmills the emergency crank at tornado speed.  It’s not good for it by the way.

So I don’t think the emer engagement slide being forward is your problem.  I’d probably check it a bit further.  However, I have had my gear cb pop before and I reset it.  I have no idea why it popped, but it’s probably been 6 months working fine since.

[Ragsf15e]

  On 5/17/2020 at 7:37 PM, Niko182 said:

The mooney system works that if the emergency gear level cover is open, its going to pop the circuit breaker. What you're describing is normal, at least from what my mechanic said.

Expand  

This is true depending on the year/model.  I’ve heard lots of folks with the later emergency system in the floor have had their gear not come up because a passenger bumped the engage switch.  However, the older style crank system In the pilot sidewall will still engage the electric motor and you won’t forget it.

[carusoam]

Wait a minute....

having the manual system clash with the powered system will unpower a circuit breaker.....

1) Congrats the CB kept the system from overloading electrically...

2) Put it in your checklist of things to make sure don’t happen again...

3) What you don’t know about, is... there is a brass part in the gear system that meshes with a stainless steel part...  when these two clash... it is quite possible that the brass softer part gets damaged.... and no longer allows for the engagement of the manual system... or the electric system....

4) How is that for catch M22...?

There is plenty of detail including pics of damaged brass parts around here... Andrew’s pics are best known for pics on the topic...

5) It is possible that you got away without damage... there is one way to know... inspecting the parts...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Ragsf15e]

  On 5/17/2020 at 8:00 PM, carusoam said:

Wait a minute....

having the manual system clash with the powered system will unpower a circuit breaker.....

1) Congrats the CB kept the system from overloading electrically...

2) Put it in your checklist of things to make sure don’t happen again...

3) What you don’t know about, is... there is a brass part in the gear system that meshes with a stainless steel part...  when these two clash... it is quite possible that the brass softer part gets damaged.... and no longer allows for the engagement of the manual system... or the electric system....

4) How is that for catch M22...?

There is plenty of detail including pics of damaged brass parts around here... Andrew’s pics are best known for pics on the topic...

5) It is possible that you got away without damage... there is one way to know... inspecting the parts...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

Expand  

Agreed.  It’s worth jacking up and checking both normal and emer systems.  When mine happened (during transition with a mooney instructor), there was no damage.  However, it’s definitely not good for the system if the electric is engaged with the emer engaged.

Maybe @carusoamis right and the cb saved you from further damage?

[Oscar Avalle]

IF I were you just in case I would try out the emergency extension. You never know...

[cliffy]

+1 Johnson Bar  :-) :-)

[MBDiagMan]

Yes, I had a wonderful Johnson Bar Mooney until I fell and injured my shoulder.  I really miss it, but it was an electric gear or fixed gear or quit flying so I found my current plane.

I finally got it on jacks and swung the gear both electrically and manually.  It’s wonderful peace of mind so I just need to put some time on it.

Thanks everyone!

[N201MKTurbo]

I flew a fixed gear airplane the other day. It was the first time in years I've flown a fixed gear airplane. I felt very uncomfortable not putting the gear down....

[MBDiagMan]

I go from the Mooney to my taildragger, to my son in laws 172.  Going back and forth worries me.  Afraid I going to lose the gear habit.

[N201MKTurbo]

I've found that you develop muscle memory for each after a while.

The weirdest was going from my fire breathing Yamaha FJR1300 to my wife's Yamaha Vino 125 scooter.

What do you do when you come to a stop on a motorcycle? grab a handful of clutch and brake to a stop. 

Well, with the scooter, the left handle is the rear brake. Grubbing a handful of that will wake you right up?

Now I can switch between the two without even thinking about it.

 

[David Lloyd]

Muscle memory story:  In 1964 my father bought a Ford with an automatic transmission.  My sister had never driven an automatic.  Of course, everything went smoothly until almost stopped at the first stop sign. Brakes suddenly locked as she pushed in the clutch with her left foot. Next stop, same. Next stop there was a lot of yelling in the front seat as the same thing happened despite death threats.  Later in the day, my mother did a replay.

[Bartman]

  On 5/17/2020 at 7:40 PM, Ragsf15e said:

Mine will still actuate electrically with that slide forward (68F).  It’s very exciting and tough to forget because it also windmills the emergency crank at tornado speed.  It’s not good for it by the way.

So I don’t think the emer engagement slide being forward is your problem.  I’d probably check it a bit further.  However, I have had my gear cb pop before and I reset it.  I have no idea why it popped, but it’s probably been 6 months working fine since.

Expand  

Mine did that a couple of times and yes the handle suddenly spinning at your left lower leg does get your attention quickly  !!!

I added checking the red engagement knob to my preflight and TOD-landing checklists. Position the crank handle covering the red knob at all times. A small piece of safety wire can be your friend. 

[MBDiagMan]

Well after swinging the gear and testing the emergency extension this week, I took off this morning and the gear wouldn’t retract.  I got some altitude and checked the circuit breaker and it was open.  I set it and the gear retracted normally.  I flew awhile and it it extended normally on approach.  I sure thought that I had reset the circuit breaker after my testing on jacks but maybe not.  I also thought that I checked the CB when I did the run up.  I’m still not at a really high level of confidence,  I sure do miss my Johnson Bar C.