Oil Pressure Port IO360

[201Steve]

Looking for some feedback on this. I have to think it's not the first time this has been an issue for someone, but I can't seem to find much of anything on it. Maybe I'm using the wrong search terms.

I have a 77J. There is an Oil pressure port on top of the Oil filter assembly/accessory case. From there, a pipe threaded fitting goes into the port, where a hose leading to the oil pressure guage follows. From what I *think* I've surmised, the correct fitting (a one piece 45 degree angled pipe fitting with an oil flow-restrictor hole) must be installed on the accessory case BEFORE the engine is hung. The problem is the engine mount/frame. If you attempt to install this fitting after the engine is hung, you don't have clearance to screw the fitting into the port (bumps the eng frame due to the angled fitting).

That said, I believe a compromise was made on mine, and the fitting was essentially constructed with two fittings, that in connection with each other, is quite similar to the appropriate fitting, but installed separately, you can make the clearance. I believe the fitting used (where it installs to the accessory case) is perhaps not 100% sympatico with the threading of the accessory case... because it started leaking. It blew about 3/4 quart of oil through the fitting over the course of a 3 hour flight. I took the whole thing apart to inspect, and there is thread damage in the accessory case port.

In a jam on the road, I wrapped the fitting with Yellow Teflon and it made the seal leak free. Understanding that it's not really a great fix, I'm trying to weigh my options.

If I could find a straight fitting (no angle) that married better to the port threads, maybe problem solved and there is sufficient threading left  deeper into the pipe thread. The flex hose is long enough where I believe the angled fitting may not be necessary at all. A straight fitting would also allow precise torque where  your not worried about where the fitting is pointing, so as not to bump either the Vac pump of engine frame.  I can't find anything along those lines, that also has the oil flow restrictor built into it made by Lycoming. It seems like it would be a really common type fitting but I can't find anything other than the angled fitting on Aircraft Spruce. They Lycoming Parts guide lists a Plug for that port, so maybe it was a Mooney part.

If a better-mating fitting, that I could actually get on there isn't an option and/or the threads are damaged enough, I'm left with another decision. how to repair the tapered threads in the accessory case. I've gotten answers of all varieties ranging from replacing the accessory case, to helicoil, to plugging it and tapping oil pressure somewhere else.

It's such a stupid little problem, but it's the second time on the road it's presented a problem (the first time, i just removed, reinstalled and no problem for six months. This last time, I wrapped with yellow teflon. Duration still TBD. Surely someone is going to pop in here and know exactly this problem and what to do to resolve it!?!

 

I've attached a couple of pictures

-the port with fitting removed

-the fittings currently affixed in tandem

-the fitting that i THINK is the correct part

-the current setup of the install

 

There are a few angles here, so if you have any experience with this, I am open to any and all feedback. Thanks   

[jetdriven]

Yes that Aircraft Spruce part is the right one to have. I have one in my hangar that I did not use. And I do not think I returned it either. 

You can thread it into the case with a crows foot. use permatex aviation sealer rather than Teflon tape. I’m not aware of a straight oil pressure restrictor fitting available anywhere.

[jetdriven]

If you can get the guts of the oil filter accessory housing out of the accessory case, where you can access behind the hole with a rag to catch shavings, you can maybe re-tap that NPT hole a little deeper. However you may run into clearance issues with the fitting sticking in the hole too deep and interfering with that spring in there. 

[Guest]

I believe you are correct that the engine installer forgot the install the fitting prior to engine installation.  The elbow that you have does not look much like an AN fitting.  I’m not sure if you’ll be able to install the correct fitting or not, you’ll need to buy the fitting and try.
From the IPC, but not a lot of help.

Clarence

[201Steve]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

Yes that Aircraft Spruce part is the right one to have. I have one in my hangar that I did not use. And I do not think I returned it either. 

You can thread it into the case with a crows foot. use permatex aviation sealer rather than Teflon tape. I’m not aware of a straight oil pressure restrictor fitting available anywhere.

This pic looks like a different location than mine

[201Steve]

Here is a better reference picture from afar

[Guest]

While both are IO360’s, there are minor differences, oil pressure ports among them.

Clarence

[jetdriven]

That 45° fitting came off of my IO360-A3B6D engine.
There is also a bushing called a Timesert, I used this on my fuel bowl when I stripped it out. You might look into that as well. It’s a NPT bushing that works similar to a helicoil. But it’s a solid bushing with threads on the ID and the OD. The kit is 100$ but I may have it around also. 

[carusoam]

Since it’s an angled fitting going to a hose...

To deliver oil to the cabin...

To have an analog needle display the OilP...

It also has a safety device that restricts oil flow in the event of a leak

 

• It may be possible to find a straight flow restrictor... add angle further down stream... (two piece solution...)
• go with a digital pressure gauge, where a pressure sensor goes in the same hole...  (see what EI has for oilP)
• pic of an EI pressure sensor... Below...
• lift the engine, loosen the mounting bolts, install the angled restrictor...

Check the engine layout drawing to see if there are other taps available to the same source of oil pressure...

 

Since OilP is a primary instrument... it becomes a bit of a challenge to use different fittings and different holes if they give a different result...

The cost of the EI gauge and sensor and install is about 1amu...

What is the cost to fix it right?

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[PT20J]

14 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I believe you are correct that the engine installer forgot the install the fitting prior to engine installation.  The elbow that you have does not look much like an AN fitting.  I’m not sure if you’ll be able to install the correct fitting or not, you’ll need to buy the fitting and try.
From the IPC, but not a lot of help.

Clarence

The angled fittings were used on the A3B6D.  The oil pressure port is in a slightly different position on the A3B6 accessory case and the angled fitting won't work. The Mooney part for the straight restrictor fitting is 

610013-511 FITTING ASSY (straight) 

Price in 2018 was $184.57.

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[201Steve]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

The angled fittings were used on the A3B6D.  The oil pressure port is in a slightly different position on the A3B6 accessory case and the angled fitting won't work. The Mooney part for the straight restrictor fitting is 

610013-511 FITTING ASSY (straight) 

Price in 2018 was $184.57.

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$180! Dang! Good info. Thank you

[jetdriven]

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

The angled fittings were used on the A3B6D.  The oil pressure port is in a slightly different position on the A3B6 accessory case and the angled fitting won't work. The Mooney part for the straight restrictor fitting is 

610013-511 FITTING ASSY (straight) 

Price in 2018 was $184.57.

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I posted a picture of the 45 angle restrictor fitting on a A3B6. I also removed it and reinstalled it in place this last annual. 
 

the 1977 is a real pain in the ass regarding oil pressure.  You have a mechanical gauge in the factory cluster and a hose going to it. The only way to add the JPI oil pressure sender is to order two hoses for around 350$, put a Tee fitting in it, then thread the JPI sender into that.  Now, instead of a oil pressure hose behind the panel, you now have a NPT Tee fitting? And two -4AN to NpT fittings and a sender there too. Too much for me 

so what so did was source a 1979-1985 oil pressure gauge and sender.  I installed that in place of the mechanical gauge in the Cluster, then ran a short hose off the accessory case to a Tee fitting and two electrical senders. One for  the factory gauge, and one for the JPI. 

[ArtVandelay]

I posted a picture of the 45 angle restrictor fitting on a A3B6. I also removed it and reinstalled it in place this last annual. 
 
the 1977 is a real pain in the ass regarding oil pressure.  You have a mechanical gauge in the factory cluster and a hose going to it. The only way to add the JPI oil pressure sender is to order two hoses for around 350$, put a Tee fitting in it, then thread the JPI sender into that.  Now, instead of a oil pressure hose behind the panel, you now have a NPT Tee fitting? And two -4AN to NpT fittings and a sender there too. Too much for me 
so what so did was source a 1979-1985 oil pressure gauge and sender.  I installed that in place of the mechanical gauge in the Cluster, then ran a short hose off the accessory case to a Tee fitting and two electrical senders. One for  the factory gauge, and one for the JPI. 

Best solution with been just to remove the factory gauges and use Jpi 900.


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[PT20J]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

I posted a picture of the 45 angle restrictor fitting on a A3B6. I also removed it and reinstalled it in place this last annual. 
 

Good to know, and that provides another option.

The original on my A3B6D was a 90-deg. as shown in the drawing. It definitely didn't fit on the A3B6 -- there wasn't enough clearance to rotate it -- so we used the straight part. According to the IPC, Mooney has used three different parts:

620007-501 A3B6D 90-deg mechanical gauge

610013-509 A3B6D 90-deg electric gauge

610013-511 A3B6 straight electric gauge

Not sure why the mechanical gauge fitting has a different part number or what the difference is.

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[jetdriven]

7 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Best solution with been just to remove the factory gauges and use Jpi 900.


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Yes. But 1900$ vs over 4500$. . And we didn’t want to cut a new panel until we do the G3x touch.

the -900 wouldn’t fit in the space below the gear handle. We measured it and made a wooden block. It physically couldn’t fit.  

[carusoam]

[201Steve]

@jetdriven if I’m following correctly, you have a ‘77 with a B6D. So, the port should be in the same place, as that’s what I have as well. But I can’t grasp where your port is... the pic doesn’t appear to be in the same spot. Do you have another zoomed out picture so I can see where yours is? I wonder if there was more than one Acces case used? Or if there are more than one option to tap it, as carusoam mentioned. 

I was thinking of JPI 900 but would also have the same size problem I guess. I have tons of room on the right side of panel though...

what are your thoughts on using the G3x engine monitor? Are you keeping the JPI or ditching it for the g3x engine mon?

also great idea on the the timesert. Looks way more sealable than a helicoil. 

[jetdriven]

Ours is an A3B6.  Different accessory case. The oil port is under the right top engine mount 

[ArtVandelay]

Ours is an A3B6.  Different accessory case. The oil port is under the right top engine mount 

What’s the 2 groups of 6 rivets for on the baffling for?

[jetdriven]

On the other side is an aluminum piece.  It keeps the bafffle from curling under the cowl and blowing out the back. 

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, jetdriven said:

On the other side is an aluminum piece.  It keeps the bafffle from curling under the cowl and blowing out the back. 

It won't need the aluminum piece if the baffle gasket is cut large enough to inflate and seal against the cowl. 

[jetdriven]

It would still roll under and blow out the back. These early 201’s have about a 2.5”  gap between the metal baffle and the top of the cowl. Enough for the air pressure to roll the baffle seal under and backwards. The aluminum plates make the baffle sea to where  it can’t roll under.   This costs nothing and fixed the problem. It’s worked for 700hrs.  

[EricJ]

6 hours ago, jetdriven said:

It would still roll under and blow out the back. These early 201’s have about a 2.5”  gap between the metal baffle and the top of the cowl. Enough for the air pressure to roll the baffle seal under and backwards. The aluminum plates make the baffle sea to where  it can’t roll under.   This costs nothing and fixed the problem. It’s worked for 700hrs.  

I have a 77J and my baffle gaskets used to look similar to yours, cut to fit the bump in the cowl.   My temps were never right, and it failed the flashlight test looking into the cowl with a light behind it.   I put larger baffle gaskets in and curled them forward so they'd inflate against the cowl, which is standard practice in most systems like this.   My temps are now where they're supposed to be and my cowl flaps are far more effective.

 

[jetdriven]

16 hours ago, EricJ said:

I have a 77J and my baffle gaskets used to look similar to yours, cut to fit the bump in the cowl.   My temps were never right, and it failed the flashlight test looking into the cowl with a light behind it.   I put larger baffle gaskets in and curled them forward so they'd inflate against the cowl, which is standard practice in most systems like this.   My temps are now where they're supposed to be and my cowl flaps are far more effective.

 

These are the shape,  they came from Gee-Bee  that way. I didn’t want to pay $160 for a baffle seal  kit and then replace the whole piece across the back with something even taller, that was only sold on a large roll and didn’t match. . The two plates of 1” x 3 aluminum won’t allow the baffle seal to Curl to any radius smaller than about 2 inches.  They point forward and pass the light test just fine, but maybe the width of the whole piece or something caused it to slowly get pushed back further and further and further and thrn blowout backwards. Now it can’t curl and slide underneath of the cowling backwards. It was a problem before, it was a problem after the new battle seal set, and it was fixed for free basically. I have not seen that modification anywhere else, but it does work.

[PT20J]

I don't know how Mooney made the seals, but apparently there are variations between model years.  Gee-Bee has obtained original ones from owners and created dies to cut them to match. I ordered some and they were perfect except for the bottom front where we had to make a piece from material Guy sent me. So, just because something fits your plane doesn't mean it will fit someone else's. They weren't built like this :

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