ADS-B requirements

[JimB]

Maybe this has been addressed in another thread or some FAA guidance but 91.413 states that you can't use a transponder unless it has been inspected and tested within the last 24 months and 91.225(f) states that you cannot operate an aircraft equipped with ADS-B unless the equipment is on and transmitting. I guess if I have a ADS-B transponder, the 24 month test is now required regardless of the airspace you might fly in because legally you aren't supposed to use your transponder unless it has been tested? Also if the transponder is inop, are you grounded unless you request the deviation regardless of the airspace? 

§91.413   ATC transponder tests and inspections.

(a) No persons may use an ATC transponder that is specified in 91.215(a), 121.345(c), or §135.143(c) of this chapter unless, within the preceding 24 calendar months, the ATC transponder has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendix F of part 43 of this chapter;

§91.225   Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) Out equipment and use.

(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times unless—

(1) Otherwise authorized by the FAA when the aircraft is performing a sensitive government mission for national defense, homeland security, intelligence or law enforcement purposes and transmitting would compromise the operations security of the mission or pose a safety risk to the aircraft, crew, or people and property in the air or on the ground; or

(2) Otherwise directed by ATC when transmitting would jeopardize the safe execution of air traffic control functions.

 

[RLCarter]

If a transponder WAS required before, ADS-B is required now. 

[JimB]

16 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

If a transponder WAS required before, ADS-B is required now. 

I agree and maybe I am reading more in to this than I should but I read "Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times". I read that as if I am ADS-B equipped the equipment must be operated at all times and all airspaces. In other words, I cannot depart a Class C airspace and once I get out of the area, turn off my transponder (not that I would). Or takeoff from an uncontrolled field with my transponder off and not transmitting. If you have it, you have to use it all the time. But if that is the case then per 91.413 to turn on my transponder (use) I have to test it every 24 months. 

If I am not ADS-B equipped than I can't go in to airspaces where a transponder was required before. 

[RLCarter]

I see what your saying, I have GDL-82's installed in both aircraft and Garmin says to leave your X-ponder in "ALT" mode. I had on fail right at the end of 2019, I flew it several hours on several flights with the box inop and X-ponder off and ATC never said anything, this was in E & D airspace 

[JimB]

And in reading these comments to the rule making docket, AOPA had the similar concerns http://download.aopa.org/advocacy/2019/080719_AOPA_IFR_91_225(f)_Comment.pdf 

But I don't see how they were addressed if at all. They wanted it revised to read Each person operating an aircraft equipped with operable ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times unless. 

[Hank]

The Feds just don't want you to depart Rule airspace then turn off ADS-B, because then they can't surveil you and might think something has happened . . . . . They want to know where you are all the time. It's slightly more invasive than Mode C.

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, JimB said:

And in reading these comments to the rule making docket, AOPA had the similar concerns http://download.aopa.org/advocacy/2019/080719_AOPA_IFR_91_225(f)_Comment.pdf 

But I don't see how they were addressed if at all. They wanted it revised to read Each person operating an aircraft equipped with operable ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times unless. 

It's clear that the FAA wants a "always on if you have it" policy for transponders and ADS-B out. There is an inconsistency between the transponder rule 91.215 and the ADS-B rule 91.225; 91.215 requires operation if operable whereas 91.225 does not include that language. The latest revision to 91.225 is July 18, 2019. Comments were due by Sept. 16, 2019. AOPA commented on August 7, 2019 -- before the deadline. So, the process will be that the FAA will review all the comments received before the deadline and then decide what changes, if any, to incorporate in the next revision. Since 91.225 was adopted on May 28, 2010, it has already been amended five times. More likely to come.

Revision history at bottom of text for 91.225:

[Doc. No. FAA-2007-29305, 75 FR 30193, May 28, 2010; Amdt. 91-314-A, 75 FR 37712, June 30, 2010; Amdt. 91-316, 75 FR 37712, June 30, 2010; Amdt. 91-336, 80 FR 6900, Feb. 9, 2015; Amdt. 91-336A, 80 FR 11537, Mar. 4, 2015; Amdt. 91-355, 84 FR 34287, July 18, 2019]

Final Interim Rule notice:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/07/18/2019-15248/revision-to-automatic-dependent-surveillance-broadcast-ads-b-out-equipment-and-use-requirements

Skip

[carusoam]

One of the big changes was their ability to see you while taxiing around on the ground...

With the old equipment... you would turn on the Alt button before departure... apparently, it blanked out everything in the neighborhood...

With ADSB out... the WAAS gps keeps this from happening...

PP thoughts only, not an avionics tech...

Best regards,

-a-

[JimB]

18 hours ago, PT20J said:

It's clear that the FAA wants a "always on if you have it" policy for transponders and ADS-B out. There is an inconsistency between the transponder rule 91.215 and the ADS-B rule 91.225; 91.215 requires operation if operable whereas 91.225 does not include that language. The latest revision to 91.225 is July 18, 2019. Comments were due by Sept. 16, 2019. AOPA commented on August 7, 2019 -- before the deadline. So, the process will be that the FAA will review all the comments received before the deadline and then decide what changes, if any, to incorporate in the next revision. Since 91.225 was adopted on May 28, 2010, it has already been amended five times. More likely to come.

Revision history at bottom of text for 91.225:

[Doc. No. FAA-2007-29305, 75 FR 30193, May 28, 2010; Amdt. 91-314-A, 75 FR 37712, June 30, 2010; Amdt. 91-316, 75 FR 37712, June 30, 2010; Amdt. 91-336, 80 FR 6900, Feb. 9, 2015; Amdt. 91-336A, 80 FR 11537, Mar. 4, 2015; Amdt. 91-355, 84 FR 34287, July 18, 2019]

Final Interim Rule notice:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/07/18/2019-15248/revision-to-automatic-dependent-surveillance-broadcast-ads-b-out-equipment-and-use-requirements

Skip

Thanks Skip. I read the docket, the comments and the history. As you stated the FAA wants you to have you transmitting ADS-B signals all the time if you have the equipment to do so. Makes sense to me since it does provide traffic avoidance even at small uncontrolled airports outside of ATC controlled areas. However, 91.215 seems pretty clear that it only applies to specific airspace. Hopefully the FAA will get this reviewed and revised. 

[M20F]

My state says I shouldn’t drive faster then X.  Sometimes I drive X+Y.  Not legal but you get what I am saying. Sometimes I think we make too much of these things. 

[JimB]

On 2/1/2020 at 12:07 PM, M20F said:

My state says I shouldn’t drive faster then X.  Sometimes I drive X+Y.  Not legal but you get what I am saying. Sometimes I think we make too much of these things. 

Fully agree, but I just like to know what the speed limit is so at least I know how bad I'm breaking the rule.  This rule is more like having to turn on your lights if you have your windshield wipers on and there is a legal requirement to have your lights inspected every 24 months. But you only drive during daylight hours and your windshield wipers are wired to the same circuit as your wipers so you can't turn on one without turning on the other....or something like that...

[steingar]

There isn't any difference at all.  You weren't supposed to ever turn off your Mode C transponder,  later days the FAA told us to never turn it off "ALT".