Can’t get Insurance

[David_H]

9 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

It sounds like @kommershad 1 occurrence as a pilot but on an account basis there were still 2 occurrences.

How do you count two occurrences?

@kommers said that the only claim was made on the M20C he was previously involved with. The claim was shown to be not a pilot fault (another partner) and he wasn't acting as PIC for the claim incident.

Did I read that wrong as well?

[Parker_Woodruff]

12 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

There are so many unknowns in the scenarios presented:

• One loss is normally not a reason to non-renew a policy

 

4 minutes ago, kommers said:

Why would they see me as a loss-prone? Personally, I never caused any problem to the insurers... oh, I forgot, I once totalled my Camry in 2001, but that was on the ground and aviation insurers didn't know about it    When it comes to aviation, technically, there was 1 incident with the planes I owned through my life, and 0 incidents with me as a pilot. Basically, I am punished for the sins of others and that "other" is actually the company that made a faulty Johnson bar lock..  

I feel you, my friend.  But unfortunately on this board I have to speak in pretty broad terms and that's why I said "normally not a reason" 

In a perfect world I wouldn't have a job ...But in this imperfect world I'll push an underwriter pretty hard where it makes sense (such as in your case).  And both sides (carrier and client) will get the honest truth.

[MikeOH]

@Parker_Woodruff

Parker, you are NOT understanding that Krommers has NOT been responsible for ANY incidents; NONE!

And, there has been ONLY one incident with a plane he USED to own; the M20C in which he was NOT the pilot when the gear-up caused by a mechanical problem occurred!

Given those circumstances I cannot fathom why his insurance carrier declined to renew.????

[PT20J]

Insurance companies are fickle. Years ago my carrier (USAIG) decided not to do business with my broker for some reason. They could have sent me a letter saying that if I wanted to renew I would have to do so through another broker. Instead I got a registered letter informing me they would not renew my policy with no reason stated. I guess my business wasn’t very important to them. It’s not like auto insurance where they will do a lot to keep you from switching.

Skip

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 minute ago, MikeOH said:

@Parker_Woodruff

Parker, you are NOT understanding that Krommers has NOT been responsible for ANY incidents; NONE!

And, there has been ONLY one incident with a plane he USED to own; the M20C in which he was NOT the pilot when the gear-up caused by a mechanical problem occurred!

Given those circumstances I cannot fathom why his insurance carrier declined to renew.????

 

11 hours ago, kommers said:

This time, only myself and another pilot, were on the policy, neither of us was responsible for that accident. 

I guess I have mistakenly read this as a separate accident for the 20J? 

[MikeOH]

Just now, Parker_Woodruff said:

 

I guess I have mistakenly read this as a separate accident for the 20J? 

You are misunderstanding him.  "That accident" is referring to the one in the M20C where he was NOT the pilot.

[David_H]

Just now, Parker_Woodruff said:

 

I guess I have mistakenly read this as a separate accident for the 20J? 

@kommers never said there was an accident for the M20J.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I understand now (after re-reading for the 5th time).

[MikeOH]

Just now, Parker_Woodruff said:

I understand now (after re-reading for the 5th time).

So,.... what's your theory for why his carrier told him to take a hike?

Inquiring minds want to know

[RobertGary1]

8 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Insurance companies are fickle. Years ago my carrier (USAIG) decided not to do business with my broker for some reason. They could have sent me a letter saying that if I wanted to renew I would have to do so through another broker. Instead I got a registered letter informing me they would not renew my policy with no reason stated. I guess my business wasn’t very important to them. It’s not like auto insurance where they will do a lot to keep you from switching.

Skip

I think the letter of non-renewal is a legal requirement on non renewal. Insurance is heavily regulated. 
 

-Robert 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Just now, MikeOH said:

So,.... what's your theory for why his carrier told him to take a hike?

Inquiring minds want to know

it depends on the carrier.  There may have been internal reasons.

I think I noted above or maybe in another post on this board...there was one powerhouse insurance company that got into light GA and quickly realized they didn't like the volume of claims that came with that entry in the light GA market.  In a big knee-jerk reaction they non-renewed everyone who had just one claim.  It was very strange as the non-renewals I was hearing were even for non-pilot-error reasons (hangar door falls on the plane, etc.).

Again...any general statements I post on this board are certain to have their exceptions.

And sometimes insurance companies do things for really dumb reasons...or no reason at all...or sometimes for good reasons that are buried deep within a new reinsurance negotiation.

It's a interesting world there...but I am glad to be back on the agent/broker side...

[PT20J]

5 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I think the letter of non-renewal is a legal requirement on non renewal. Insurance is heavily regulated. 
 

-Robert 

I don’t know, but last year when my broker called to renew, the carrier declined (they had decided to exit the market I was told) and I never got a letter from them. 

[MikeOH]

@Parker_Woodruff

Thanks!

I'm going with his carrier is the one that decided to exit the GA market as he had the policy for a year on his M20J before they didn't renew the next year.  Maybe @kommers will share the name and you can confirm if that's the one you remember.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Just now, MikeOH said:

@Parker_Woodruff

Thanks!

I'm going with his carrier is the one that decided to exit the GA market as he had the policy for a year on his M20J before they didn't renew the next year.  Maybe @kommers will share the name and you can confirm if that's the one you remember.

Yeah let’s not go into the whole names thing here but I’m happy to comment privately. I shoot straight and bluntly but unless I’m directly involved I won’t comment as if I know every fact on the scenario.

[kommers]

2 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

@Parker_Woodruff

Thanks!

I'm going with his carrier is the one that decided to exit the GA market as he had the policy for a year on his M20J before they didn't renew the next year.  Maybe @kommers will share the name and you can confirm if that's the one you remember.

Sure thing ! US Specialty Ins. Co

[David_H]

11 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Yeah let’s not go into the whole names thing here but I’m happy to comment privately. I shoot straight and bluntly but unless I’m directly involved I won’t comment as if I know every fact on the scenario.

A company's name is what makes the small world of GA work.

Edited January 16, 2020 by David_H
grammar

[David_H]

The "let's not name a company's name approach" is not helpful to the future of the GA community.

Edited January 16, 2020 by David_H

[kommers]

I have my own theory why they dropped me more than a year after the incident instead of right away. I suspect that there could be some communication breakdown between department handling the claim and department that writes the policy. My theory is that accident database was not updated fast enough to reflect July 2015 incident, so in September 2015 when they were writing 20J policy for me  they were simply unaware of what happened to my 20C. Later on,  they figured it out, but since new policy has been paid for in full, they had to patiently wait for the  term expiration and inform me about discontinuance then 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Just now, David_H said:

The "let's not name company's name approach" is not helpful to the future of the GA community.

I wouldn’t want someone saying the precise reason I did or didn’t do something for a client if that person couldn’t see the file of what specifics were involved.

[David_H]

4 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

I wouldn’t want someone saying the precise reason I did or didn’t do something for a client if that person couldn’t see the file of what specifics were involved.

Fair enough...

Naming companies that are not behaving in a GA friendly way is helpful to everyone though.  

Edited January 16, 2020 by David_H
Changed: Providing the Companies to Naming the companies

[ArtVandelay]

54 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

@Parker_Woodruff

Parker, you are NOT understanding that Krommers has NOT been responsible for ANY incidents; NONE!

And, there has been ONLY one incident with a plane he USED to own; the M20C in which he was NOT the pilot when the gear-up caused by a mechanical problem occurred!

Given those circumstances I cannot fathom why his insurance carrier declined to renew.????

Do carriers associate mechanical failures with the owner. In other words, they see it as his lack of proper maintenance as the reason of incident.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Just now, ArtVandelay said:

Do carriers associate mechanical failures with the owner. In other words, they see it as his lack of proper maintenance as the reason of incident.

Yes. But if it’s a true maintenance error or part failure they very well might subrogate against the shop’s or the part manufacturer’s insurance.

The maintenance logs are reviewed after almost every claim. When I was an underwriter we would be told the claim adjuster’s opinion on the condition of the aircraft or operation. A lot of those adjusters are A&P/IAs.

[kommers]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Do carriers associate mechanical failures with the owner. In other words, they see it as his lack of proper maintenance as the reason of incident.

Ironically, new Johnson bar lock assembly was installed about 3 weeks before the incident for the sole purpose to replace old, worn-out lock that, according to my mechanic, could release Johnson bar unexpectedly at any moment.  His own words were: let's not take any chances, this is getting dangerous, so  let's replace the assembly before incident happened" Yeah......