C Starter replacement. Bottom Cowling removal?

[chriscalandro]

My starter has entered self destruct mode and doesn't retract anymore until the engine forces it to get out of the way or else, and rather than messing around with trying to repair the old one I just ordered the Sky-Tec.

Do I really have to take the bottom cowling off... Has anyone successfully done this without removing the bottom cowling?  I hate removing the bottom cowling.... 

I replaced the generator for an alternator last year and I can't remember if the starter bolts they share have the starter on the top or bottom.  I knew I should have done this when I had the bottom cowl off before, but I didn't.....

Edited October 14, 2019 by chriscalandro

[carusoam]

My memory says...  partially.

My C was held together by oil hoses and the oil cooler that was bolted to the lower cowl...

What else do you want to get done? The starter and alternator are in the same area... as are the intake tubes and exhaust tubes...

Think for a moment...

Chris, you are describing the Bendix drive being stuck...

This is about a five dollar part, when lubricated, starts working properly...

Are you sure you need/want a new starter?

PP thoughts of ancient memories... 

Best regards,

-a-

[chriscalandro]

I odered the sky-tec so it's here when / if I need it.  I'm going to try lubing it tomorrow to see if I can get it to go.

Once in a while it fails to pop out, but now it fails to go back in, which happens every time.  The torque is enough to loosen the bolts and twist the whole thing. It makes a  noise that makes me sad because I know the hell of the bottom cowling, and my passengers nervous because the terrible grinding sound makes them think their going to die when I go ahead and fly anyway.  I'd rather not mess with it and just swap it out.

I have an oil line that chaffed on the linkage for the carb heat plate at the air intake, so I need to swap that, but that doesn't require the bottom cowling to come off.

 

There isn't anything else that really needs to be done down there, the alternator was done 6 or 7 months ago.

Edited October 14, 2019 by chriscalandro

[carusoam]

There is probably a decent weight savings in the newer starter that makes it worth the added effort...

For research see what it takes to swap out just the Bendix drive...  if it isn’t working... it is a bit of Self contained mechanism.  May have come with the starter... decades ago... it is actually a normal part to swap out for a new one...

Getting it swapped out shouldn’t be all that hard compared to swapping out the whole starter...

Also give a good look at the starter’s ring gear..... aluminum gear heated and allowed to shrink in place... may show signs of wear, or missing a tooth... (a description of my M20C)

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Skybrd]

From my experiences with two mooneys concerning skytec starters. My repair shop replaced the old starter with a skytec LS type and immediately know something was wrong. At times the starter would stall at high compression and it required multiple attempts to crank and start. I found out from skytec engineer that the LS permanent magnet starter took more than 100 amps extra to crank. They recommended I replace it with a skytec NL starter that took much less current. The two mooneys I have had both were replaced with the NL type. No problems since then. Btw, I would recommend your mechanic shop do the work and paperwork. The skytec NL starter will require some minor baffeling work that surrounds the starter. The NL starter is a geared starter. Thats my two cents for what ever its worth. Best of luck to you, maybe replacing the defective bendix on your old starter might be the best way to go. 

[chriscalandro]

I ordered the NL.  Looking at the dimensions and docs I don't see a need to modify baffeling, what did you have to do?  looks like its a pretty simple bolt in swap. (unlike the alternator)

I dont see the point in keeping the old one.  The Sky-tek was just under $500.  If I'm going to take the bottom cowl off I'm going to make it worth the time.  That should do it for anything behind that bottom cowl and hopefully I can get some years of not taking it off again.

 

Like I said, I should have done it before when I did the alternator.

Edited October 14, 2019 by chriscalandro

[RobertGary1]

In the early days a lot of baffling work was required. Skytec keeps improving the simple R&R thing. 
 

-Robert 

[alextstone]

...  If I'm going to take the bottom cowl off I'm going to make it worth the time.  That should do it for anything behind that bottom cowl and hopefully I can get some years of not taking it off again.
 

Man, I'm jealous! I take the bottom cowl of EVERY 25 hours for the oil change.

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[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, alextstone said:

Man, I'm jealous! I take the bottom cowl of EVERY 25 hours for the oil change.

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No, all of us with vintage Mooneys are the jealous ones.  Taking the lower cowling off of our airplanes is about a 2 hour job.  The only lucky thing is that it only has to be removed for major jobs.

[Sabremech]

6 hours ago, Andy95W said:

No, all of us with vintage Mooneys are the jealous ones.  Taking the lower cowling off of our airplanes is about a 2 hour job.  The only lucky thing is that it only has to be removed for major jobs.

I’ve got it down to about 30 minutes now. I think I’ve had plenty of experience.

David

[Andy95W]

47 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

I’ve got it down to about 30 minutes now. I think I’ve had plenty of experience.

David

I can only imagine all the times you've had to do that on your M20C while trial-fitting your new cowling!

[MIm20c]

9 hours ago, Andy95W said:

No, all of us with vintage Mooneys are the jealous ones.  Taking the lower cowling off of our airplanes is about a 2 hour job.  The only lucky thing is that it only has to be removed for major jobs.

I’m a slow learner, we pull it every annual.  I find it helpful to check the exhaust system, intake boot, etc.  I just consider it a no big deal event now. 

[RobertGary1]

19 hours ago, MIm20c said:

I’m a slow learner, we pull it every annual.  I find it helpful to check the exhaust system, intake boot, etc.  I just consider it a no big deal event now. 

You need to invest in a mirror. Not only does it take a lot of time it beats up the intake boot which is extremely pricey to replace.

 

-Robert