Overhaul

[chrixxer]

Met with the engine rebuilder yesterday and started to nail down specifics. (He's leaving for England today to bring back a Merlin V12.)

Engine Case:  Sent to DivCo Supply in Tulsa. “Engine case is remanufactured to new limits by a decking and line boring process.”

Crank Shaft, Connecting Rods and Gears: Crank shaft and engine gears sent to Aircraft Specialties Services, also in Tulsa. “Crank shaft is overhauled to new factory limits by grinding, polishing and if necessary renitrided to restore wear surface hardness and increase fatigue strength. Counterweights are re-bushed and balanced to exceed factory limits. Connecting rods and engine gears go through a inspection process. Any component rejected must be replaced.” The crank shaft is dynamically balanced.

Cylinders: New factory cylinder assemblies from Superior, with new pistons, valves, piston pins, rings and springs. He's of the opinion the Superior cylinders don't need the Ly-Con “magic” (porting), and that spending the $1,200 to get it done would be a waste of money.

Engine Reassembly: “The engine is assembled with new cam shaft and lifters, rod bolts and nuts, main and rod bearings, new oil pump and gears, fuel pump, gaskets and seals, and new case hardware.” I asked about the cam wear and lifters; he confirmed the Lycoming kit is garbage, and only uses hardened parts (cam shaft, lifters) from Superior. He has engines flying with over 3,000 hours using the Superior parts.

Accessories: “Accessories should be overhauled at this point depending on the time left on these components. Owner and installation mechanic can make this assessment. Oil cooler must be professionally cleaned by a company such as Pacific Oil Cooler Services, La Verne, CA. All engine bay hoses will be in airworthy condition.” My fuel servo and mechanical fuel pump are less than a year old, the mags were IRAN'd at that time too and the ignition harness replaced; I'm swapping to all new Tempest massive electrode plugs (already purchased). Anything else that should get attention, will. Going to have my prop governor IRAN'd by Johnson & Sons Propeller Services in Shafter, California (he works with them regularly).

Probably at least 8 weeks away from having a flying plane again (using the down time to get my AMEL add-on).

[Prior owner]

Engine mount AD- does it apply to your aircraft, and has it had the gussets installed to terminate the Ad?

[jaylw314]

33 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

Accessories: “Accessories should be overhauled at this point depending on the time left on these components. Owner and installation mechanic can make this assessment. Oil cooler must be professionally cleaned by a company such as Pacific Oil Cooler Services, La Verne, CA. All engine bay hoses will be in airworthy condition.” My fuel servo and mechanical fuel pump are less than a year old, the mags were IRAN'd at that time too and the ignition harness replaced; I'm swapping to all new Tempest massive electrode plugs (already purchased). Anything else that should get attention, will. Going to have my prop governor IRAN'd by Johnson & Sons Propeller Services in Shafter, California (he works with them regularly).

Probably at least 8 weeks away from having a flying plane again (using the down time to get my AMEL add-on).

I thought an engine overhaul required overhaul of the magnetos to qualify as an "overhaul?"

[chrixxer]

47 minutes ago, PilotCoyote said:

Engine mount AD- does it apply to your aircraft, and has it had the gussets installed to terminate the Ad?

You're talking about 75-09-08? It does apply. What gussets?

[chrixxer]

20 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I thought an engine overhaul required overhaul of the magnetos to qualify as an "overhaul?"

[citation needed]

I don't see that in the Lycoming Overhaul Manual? 

[jaylw314]

14 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

[citation needed]

I don't see that in the Lycoming Overhaul Manual? 

I don't have a reference either, I just recall hearing someone here say that.  @M20Doc?

[MIm20c]

I think pacific only charges 300 ish for an overhaul, I’d spend the extra. 

Certain things need to be done to qualify as an overhaul. However, I’d rather buy an aircraft from an owner who progressively keeps the plane up to snuff with hoses/fuel systems/mags along the way.  Even if this means a few accessories have some extra time on them. 

[ArtVandelay]

[citation needed]

I don't see that in the Lycoming Overhaul Manual? 

From the 240W SB, note the last statement...

Any time the following parts are removed from any Lycoming reciprocating engine, it is mandatory that the following parts be replaced regardless of their apparent condition:

· All circlips, lockplates, retaining rings and laminated shims

· All counterweight washers

· All lockwashers and locknuts

· All main and connecting rod bearings (may also be referred to as “bearing inserts”)

· All V­band coupling gaskets

· Stressed bolts and fasteners, such as:

· Stationary drive gear bolts (reduction gear)

· Camshaft gear attaching bolts

· Connecting rod bolts and nuts

· Crankshaft flange bolts

· Crankshaft gear bolt

AT OVERHAUL:

During overhaul of any Lycoming reciprocating engine, it is mandatory that the following parts be replaced regardless of their apparent condition:

· All engine hoses

· All engine hose assemblies

· All oil seals

· All cylinder base seals

· All gaskets

· Piston rings

· Piston pins (thin wall)*

· Piston pin plugs

· Propeller governor oil line elbow (aluminum)**

· Propeller shaft sleeve rings

· Propeller shaft rollers (reduction gear pinion cage)

· Propeller shaft thrust bearings (all geared drive engines)

· Supercharger bearing oil seal (mechanically supercharged series)

· All exhaust valves (replace with current exhaust valves)

· All intake and exhaust valve guides

· All exhaust valve retaining rings

· Rocker arms and fulcrums (O­320­H, O, LO, TO, LTO­360­E Series)

· Aluminum push rod assemblies l (O­235 Series)

· Cylinder fin stabilizers

· Magneto drive cushions

· Magneto isolation drive bearings

· Thermostatic bypass valves

· Damaged ignition cables

· Crankshaft sludge tubes

· Counterweight bushings in crankshaft and in counterweights (See latest revision of Service

Instructions No. 1142 and 1143 for instructions.)

· Accessory drive coupling springs (supercharged and VO­540 engines)

· AC diaphragm fuel pumps

· Fuel pump plunger for diaphragm fuel pumps

· Oil pump bodies (two­piece)

· Oil pump gears *** (Refer to the latest revision of Service Bulletin No. 524 for replacement gear

service kit, if necessary, and Service Instruction No. 1164 for individual impeller part numbers.)

· All V­band couplings and gaskets

· Roller tappet assemblies n

· Hydraulic tappet plunger assemblies

 

Requirements for replacement of parts for accessories such as magnetos, carburetors, fuel injectors, AN fuel pumps, and turbochargers are described in the applicable manufacturer’s manual.

 

 

Tom

[chrixxer]

18 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Requirements for replacement of parts for accessories such as magnetos, carburetors, fuel injectors, AN fuel pumps, and turbochargers are described in the applicable manufacturer’s manual.

So, not automatically required to be overhauled when overhauling the engine...? The IRAN on my mags was extensive, not sure where the line gets drawn between "RAN" and overhaul. If they need an overhaul they'll get an overhaul (or maybe one side swapped for electronic ignition)... Just don't want to spend the money or f with them if unnecessary. (Shortly after they came back from the IRAN one failed and had to be repaired again, but they've both been rock solid since. Work was done by Aero Accessories at Van Nuys.)

[ArtVandelay]

My engine shop just installed new mags, it overhauled fuel components. I replaced alternator with new, and starter was only 2 years old, so it wasn’t touched.


Tom

[Guest]

Lycoming Service instruction 240W covers minimum parts replacement at overhaul.

https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Mandatory Parts Replacement at Overhaul and During Repair or Maintenance.pdf

Clarence

[Guest]

2 hours ago, chrixxer said:

Met with the engine rebuilder yesterday and started to nail down specifics. (He's leaving for England today to bring back a Merlin V12.)

Engine Case:  Sent to DivCo Supply in Tulsa. “Engine case is remanufactured to new limits by a decking and line boring process.”

Crank Shaft, Connecting Rods and Gears: Crank shaft and engine gears sent to Aircraft Specialties Services, also in Tulsa. “Crank shaft is overhauled to new factory limits by grinding, polishing and if necessary renitrided to restore wear surface hardness and increase fatigue strength. Counterweights are re-bushed and balanced to exceed factory limits. Connecting rods and engine gears go through a inspection process. Any component rejected must be replaced.” The crank shaft is dynamically balanced.

Cylinders: New factory cylinder assemblies from Superior, with new pistons, valves, piston pins, rings and springs. He's of the opinion the Superior cylinders don't need the Ly-Con “magic” (porting), and that spending the $1,200 to get it done would be a waste of money.

Engine Reassembly: “The engine is assembled with new cam shaft and lifters, rod bolts and nuts, main and rod bearings, new oil pump and gears, fuel pump, gaskets and seals, and new case hardware.” I asked about the cam wear and lifters; he confirmed the Lycoming kit is garbage, and only uses hardened parts (cam shaft, lifters) from Superior. He has engines flying with over 3,000 hours using the Superior parts.

Accessories: “Accessories should be overhauled at this point depending on the time left on these components. Owner and installation mechanic can make this assessment. Oil cooler must be professionally cleaned by a company such as Pacific Oil Cooler Services, La Verne, CA. All engine bay hoses will be in airworthy condition.” My fuel servo and mechanical fuel pump are less than a year old, the mags were IRAN'd at that time too and the ignition harness replaced; I'm swapping to all new Tempest massive electrode plugs (already purchased). Anything else that should get attention, will. Going to have my prop governor IRAN'd by Johnson & Sons Propeller Services in Shafter, California (he works with them regularly).

Probably at least 8 weeks away from having a flying plane again (using the down time to get my AMEL add-on).

Superior cylinders for your angle valve Lycoming?  I didn’t think that they made them for this engine.

Clarence

[chrixxer]

Just now, M20Doc said:

Superior cylinders for your angle valve Lycoming?  I didn’t think that they made them for this engine.

Hmm. Not sure. I'll ask when he's back in town. Might end up with Lycoming cylinders massaged by Ly-Con after all. (Don't know if it changes anything, but my -A1A was converted to that configuration in the 1980s, and used to be a different configuration (-C something IIRC).

[Guest]

From the AirPower Website:

Clarence 

[N201MKTurbo]

IO360A1A uses 05K21120 cylinders. Superior doesn't have them.

https://www.superiorairparts.com/millennium-cylinders/application/

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by N201MKTurbo

[jetdriven]

The new DLC coated lifters from lycoming are not garbage. In fact They are the only  thing short of a roller lifter that does not get corrosion and pitting  and then spall. Talk to your buddy at LyCon again.   he will not put anything else in engines he builds.  Also I would pay for the porting. . I think it’s real gains. 

A friend of mine sent his Cessna 205 case out for the same process. 200 house later it cracked. The warranty is limited to sending in the case again and if they can weld repair it they will. Dont kid yourself, it’s not a new case. Its repaired.  

Edited September 17, 2019 by jetdriven

[kmyfm20s]

 

LyCon! Look at those beautiful ports!!

 

[Prior owner]

2 hours ago, chrixxer said:

You're talking about 75-09-08? It does apply. What gussets?

This as well?  Gussets

LASAR will do both

Edited September 17, 2019 by PilotCoyote

[HRM]

20 hours ago, chrixxer said:

Met with the engine rebuilder yesterday and started to nail down specifics. (He's leaving for England today to bring back a Merlin V12.)

 

I'd be very, very careful with that Merlin on your Mooney, could rip the wings off.

[chrixxer]

2 hours ago, HRM said:

I'd be very, very careful with that Merlin on your Mooney, could rip the wings off.

 

We were going to hang it off a Wilga ... (Too soon?)

[kortopates]

So, not automatically required to be overhauled when overhauling the engine...? The IRAN on my mags was extensive, not sure where the line gets drawn between "RAN" and overhaul. If they need an overhaul they'll get an overhaul (or maybe one side swapped for electronic ignition)... Just don't want to spend the money or f with them if unnecessary. (Shortly after they came back from the IRAN one failed and had to be repaired again, but they've both been rock solid since. Work was done by Aero Accessories at Van Nuys.)

Sorry, but the IRAN, although extensive with respect to seals and bearings as done by Aero Accessories (there is no official parts list for the 500 hr IRAN) doesn’t include all the mandatory replacement parts required to qualify as an Overhaul by the manufacturer.
An IRAN is still preferable to an overhaul anytime up until the point of an engine overhaul simply because the overhaul replaced expensive parts whether or not they are needed - but now you’ll need them to qualify as overhauled else get new ones due to the difference in cost being worth it to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MIm20c]

Do new mags require any kind of core?  If not you could sell your recently IRAN’d units. 

[chrixxer]

Okay, the engine guru is back from England and my A&P is finally caught up enough to, hopefully today, remove the engine. Setup a Google Docs file where I've collected my thoughts and available information, so far (including valuable suggestions and information that came from all y'all, thank you so much!). If anyone wants to follow along, or comment on anything I've overlooked or just have plain wrong, here you go:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PXFKVeMgVDzpArThbZkRpvGP3hgKSb3QKHLbJ51KCBY/edit?usp=sharing

[BKlott]

I would (if it were me doing my engine) purchase a new oil cooler and send the engine mount out for NDT inspection repair and refinishing.

An oil cooler is a single point failure that will result in a forced landing in your immediate future. It is not likely to give you early warning unless it starts leaking before it lets loose. I had one fail but was fortunate enough to have it happen during a ground run test for leaks following an oil change. We found a leak all right, oil went all over the place. Not a place to cut corners.

The engine mount supports the weight of your engine 24 / 7. It is subjected to G forces, vibration and extreme temperatures. The tubular structure is prone to cracking and internal rust which you cannot fully detect by just looking at it. Some of these mounts have been in service for 40 to nearly 60 years without being inspected. My IA told me that in his career, only one (1) engine mount that he sent out for inspection came back without needing to be repaired. If your mount fails in flight, do you really want to have to deal with that?