Electric gear issues in yesterday flight

[lithium366]

I was on a night flight with my family from Carson City, NV to Whiteman, CA. I finished my pre-flight, got fuel and as we departed I put gear lever into UP position. 2 second later I saw a red unsafe light and an airplane rushed into the skies. But something was not right, there was a sound of an electric motor that is still running. I put gear lever back into DOWN position - gear retracted and electric motor sound disappeared... Gear up again - still hear an electric motor noise. Pulled out gear circuit breaker - still hear the noise?!? I ended up flying a pattern and landing in the same airport. Carson City is an uncontrolled field, it was 7pm and quite windy so I felt like the only airplane in the field. I made a plan to inspect gear visually and then fly to a bisier field (Reno) and maybe ask someone on the ground to see if gear is retracting / extending properly while I am on a low pass. I didn't find anything suspicious while inspecting gear and as we departed second time - no noise was observed after gear was retracted... Now I am wondering what it could be? 

[Yetti]

If you have a johnson bar that really would be strange to have a motor running sound.  It needs to go on stands to sort things out.

[lithium366]

7 minutes ago, Yetti said:

If you have a johnson bar that really would be strange to have a motor running sound.  It needs to go on stands to sort things out.

I have an electric gear with Dukes actuator. Dukes AD was completed 2 months ago... I was surprised to hear an electric motor noise even with gear circuit breaker pulled out. What I think now is that it could be some sort of static noise that circuit is making when gear is in UP position and unsafe light is on: like a bad contact somewhere generating noise with RPM frequency and passing it thru an audio panel

 

[cliffy]

A trip up on the jacks to check things out might be a good idea. 

Better safe than sorry in flight

[Yetti]

Just now, lithium366 said:

I have an electric gear with Dukes actuator. Dukes AD was completed 2 months ago... I was surprised to hear an electric motor noise even with gear circuit breaker pulled out. What I think now is that it could be some sort of static noise that circuit is making when gear is in UP position and unsafe light is on: like a bad contact somewhere generating noise with RPM frequency and passing it thru an audio panel

 

I vote one of the gears in your actuator is shot.  There are no clutches or such, it is all direct drive.   You were lucky to have enough friction of things spinning to get it down.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, lithium366 said:

I was on a night flight with my family from Carson City, NV to Whiteman, CA. I finished my pre-flight, got fuel and as we departed I put gear lever into UP position. 2 second later I saw a red unsafe light and an airplane rushed into the skies. But something was not right, there was a sound of an electric motor that is still running. I put gear lever back into DOWN position - gear retracted and electric motor sound disappeared... Gear up again - still hear an electric motor noise. Pulled out gear circuit breaker - still hear the noise?!? I ended up flying a pattern and landing in the same airport. Carson City is an uncontrolled field, it was 7pm and quite windy so I felt like the only airplane in the field. I made a plan to inspect gear visually and then fly to a bisier field (Reno) and maybe ask someone on the ground to see if gear is retracting / extending properly while I am on a low pass. I didn't find anything suspicious while inspecting gear and as we departed second time - no noise was observed after gear was retracted... Now I am wondering what it could be? 

Mine did that in cold weather (winter in WV) when my pucks wouldn't expand enough to trip the sensor. New pucks, no problems the last 7 years.

After removal, the old stack was much shorter than the new stack, and I could read the manufacturing date:  it wasn't "09/96" but "06/69"!! OMG! An honest mistake, they were upside down . . . .

[Ragsf15e]

6 hours ago, lithium366 said:

I was on a night flight with my family from Carson City, NV to Whiteman, CA. I finished my pre-flight, got fuel and as we departed I put gear lever into UP position. 2 second later I saw a red unsafe light and an airplane rushed into the skies. But something was not right, there was a sound of an electric motor that is still running. I put gear lever back into DOWN position - gear retracted and electric motor sound disappeared... Gear up again - still hear an electric motor noise. Pulled out gear circuit breaker - still hear the noise?!? I ended up flying a pattern and landing in the same airport. Carson City is an uncontrolled field, it was 7pm and quite windy so I felt like the only airplane in the field. I made a plan to inspect gear visually and then fly to a bisier field (Reno) and maybe ask someone on the ground to see if gear is retracting / extending properly while I am on a low pass. I didn't find anything suspicious while inspecting gear and as we departed second time - no noise was observed after gear was retracted... Now I am wondering what it could be? 

Not sure the year of your airplane, but the red light on my 68F isn’t “unsafe”.  It indicates that the gear is up.  I know this isn’t conventional on newer aircraft but that’s the way the old ones were.  So green is down, red is up (and remains on all flight).  If both are off, the gear are in transit or the bulbs are burned out (press to test).  All that being said, yours may be a different year and be completely different.

Also, what CB did you pull?  Theres one hidden in the sidewall at the emergency gear crank.  That one?

Doubt you’re stuck, but I fly into KCXP a lot (I’m from Carson City) and I’ve had good luck with Carson Aviation in the big Hangar on the South side attached to Sterling Aviation.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Ragsf15e

[Hank]

Good point, Rags. My 1970 C is the same, green for "Safe" meaning down, reddish/amber for "Unsafe" = up.

Check the mechanical indicator in the floor. Green = down; red and white barber pole indicates an issue. Because I don't check it to confirm Up, I'm not sure what it shows then.

Don't land if the floor indicator is not Green! I check it every landing on short final, because electric lights can be wrong . . . .

[lithium366]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

Not sure the year of your airplane, but the red light on my 68F isn’t “unsafe”.  It indicates that the gear is up.  I know this isn’t conventional on newer aircraft but that’s the way the old ones were.  So green is down, red is up (and remains on all flight).  If both are off, the gear are in transit or the bulbs are burned out (press to test).  All that being said, yours may be a different year and be completely different.

Also, what CB did you pull?  Theres one hidden in the sidewall at the emergency gear crank.  That one?

Doubt you’re stuck, but I fly into KCXP a lot (I’m from Carson City) and I’ve had good luck with Carson Aviation in the big Hangar on the South side attached to Sterling Aviation.

Sorry if I was not clear in my original post. My UP position is red light and labeled “unsafe”. When I put gear lever into “up” position after take off green light went off and red light illuminated after short transit pause. However the noise from what sounded to me like an electric motor continued. I pulled CB from the side panel (not the small red one that is activated when you enable manual retraction but the black one) and that didn’t stop the noise. Noise only stopped when I retracted gear

[Mooneymite]

Check your manual extension crank on the left sidewall.  Right beside the crank there is an engage/disengage lever.  If the lever isn't completely in the disengage detent, your electric drive will not operate properly.

[RobertGary1]

The red light on mine means the gear is in transit. Goes off when its up.

-Robert

[N9434V]

On my 1970 M20C  --  just like Hanks,     Green -- gear down,    Amber -- Gear up,    no lights during transit

[Mooneymite]

On 9/9/2019 at 10:43 AM, lithium366 said:

I was on a night flight with my family from Carson City, NV to Whiteman, CA. I finished my pre-flight, got fuel and as we departed I put gear lever into UP position. 2 second later I saw a red unsafe light and an airplane rushed into the skies. But something was not right, there was a sound of an electric motor that is still running. I put gear lever back into DOWN position - gear retracted and electric motor sound disappeared... Gear up again - still hear an electric motor noise. Pulled out gear circuit breaker - still hear the noise?!? I ended up flying a pattern and landing in the same airport. Carson City is an uncontrolled field, it was 7pm and quite windy so I felt like the only airplane in the field. I made a plan to inspect gear visually and then fly to a bisier field (Reno) and maybe ask someone on the ground to see if gear is retracting / extending properly while I am on a low pass. I didn't find anything suspicious while inspecting gear and as we departed second time - no noise was observed after gear was retracted... Now I am wondering what it could be? 

Any resolution?

[lithium366]

On 9/20/2019 at 5:31 AM, Mooneymite said:

Any resolution?

I was quite busy last weeks and didn't get a chance to get back to the issue, I will post an update