MIm20c Posted August 3, 2019 Report Posted August 3, 2019 I know multiple comparisons have been done between these models. I’m particularly interested in how they compare at ~12k and ~17k. I’m assuming the aerodynamic efficiencies are more noticeable down low? iirc the delta between the two is around 10-15kts at the same power setting? Is it wrong to assume the Acclaim could run 65lop and keep up with the bravo at 70-75rop? Besides people nuking the tops on the TN is there a big difference in maintenance in addition to the extra turbo? Quote
M016576 Posted August 3, 2019 Report Posted August 3, 2019 Great questions- I’m curious about this too Quote
alextstone Posted August 3, 2019 Report Posted August 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, MIm20c said: I know multiple comparisons have been done between these models. I’m particularly interested in how they compare at ~12k and ~17k. I’m assuming the aerodynamic efficiencies are more noticeable down low? iirc the delta between the two is around 10-15kts at the same power setting? Is it wrong to assume the Acclaim could run 65lop and keep up with the bravo at 70-75rop? Besides people nuking the tops on the TN is there a big difference in maintenance in addition to the extra turbo? I've owned and flown both. I currently fly a '95 Bravo. The top overhaul at 600 hrs for Acclaims is no small issue, cost wise. I found the Acclaim generally easier to fly (no cowl flaps, mine had the GFC 700 autopilot, G1000, etc). It does perform better too but the delta is not enough to matter on most trips. The climb rate is impressive with the Acclaim and I miss that with the Bravo. However, the sweet spot for value vs speed and capability is either the Bravo or a 252. In general your bank account will decide for you. 3 Quote
MIm20c Posted August 3, 2019 Author Report Posted August 3, 2019 I’ve been watching the 252/encore market for the past 18 months, still looking. The bravo looks really nice and there is two planes I’ve been watching lately. Just trying to decide if I should go full stupid on an Acclaim... I’m not sure what to think about the Continental top ends. I’ve seen ovations replacing 2-3 jugs after 400 hrs and others (new and overhauled) go 1800-2000. I personally think heat is the main killer, turn up the fuel or point the nose down. Quote
M20F Posted August 3, 2019 Report Posted August 3, 2019 35 minutes ago, MIm20c said: I personally think heat is the main killer, turn up the fuel or point the nose down. In 5, 4, 3...... Quote
thinwing Posted August 3, 2019 Report Posted August 3, 2019 I’ve had better luck with Lycoming cylinders going to tbo ,continentals starting from 1980 on ,case cracks on light cases,low or zero compression at mid time or less (io520 /io550) starter adaptor issues etc.. 1 Quote
MIm20c Posted August 4, 2019 Author Report Posted August 4, 2019 Really curious about the Acclaim’s TAS at 65% lop... Anyone have access to an accurate chart? Is 195 too much to ask for @12k? Quote
kortopates Posted August 4, 2019 Report Posted August 4, 2019 33 minutes ago, MIm20c said: Really curious about the Acclaim’s TAS at 65% lop... Anyone have access to an accurate chart? Is 195 too much to ask for @12k? At 12K 196 kts on 15.6 GPH Best Economy (50F LOP) at ISA. But that's a sinful place to fly an Acclaim, at the same FF, you'll be doing 209 kts up at 18K, so think 17,500'. Number quoted are from the 280HP Acclaim POH. 1 Quote
kortopates Posted August 4, 2019 Report Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) BTW, in contrast, the Best Mooney or most efficient Mooney ever made, will do 190 kts at 18K on only 12.7 GPH with ISA conditions with a useful load over 1100 lbs! Edited August 4, 2019 by kortopates 3 Quote
carusoam Posted August 5, 2019 Report Posted August 5, 2019 On 8/3/2019 at 1:59 PM, MIm20c said: I’ve been watching the 252/encore market for the past 18 months, still looking. The bravo looks really nice and there is two planes I’ve been watching lately. Just trying to decide if I should go full stupid on an Acclaim... I’m not sure what to think about the Continental top ends. I’ve seen ovations replacing 2-3 jugs after 400 hrs and others (new and overhauled) go 1800-2000. I personally think heat is the main killer, turn up the fuel or point the nose down. Heat is the main killer... FF set up is the main solution... My IO550 easily made it close to TBO on the same cylinders before a ground strike ruined the plan to go past TBO... Go O... or go FLs with an Acclaim... and O2... or Bravo... There isn’t much reasoning to go Acclaim and remain at 12k’ and below... is there? Find Joe Z... See if he can give insight on his Acclaim experience... 310hp climbing to the FLs has got to be a reason for an Acclaim over the Bravo... Best regards, -a- Quote
Niko182 Posted August 5, 2019 Report Posted August 5, 2019 I fly 65% power at 9k all the time and see about 183 knots to 185. I would expect 190knots at 12K 65% power in an acclaim due to it being a cleaner air frame and some minor mods. I personally love the continental, and that extra 40hp is very noticeable on climb and takeoff. I understand im comparing an ovation to an acclaim but power is power and 200hp in an ovation is going to be maybe 5 knots slower than 200hp in an acclaim at the same altitude. I'd personally take the acclaim strictly for the takeoff power. after flying 310hp, its hard to go back. I however do not like the g1000. Its a great system and works very well but it seems like Mooney hasn't found the will to keep the system updated. if they would keep it up to date, that would be a different story, such as upgrades to the NXI. Quote
MIm20c Posted August 20, 2019 Author Report Posted August 20, 2019 On 8/4/2019 at 6:41 PM, kortopates said: BTW, in contrast, the Best Mooney or most efficient Mooney ever made, will do 190 kts at 18K on only 12.7 GPH with ISA conditions with a useful load over 1100 lbs! Paul, thanks for all your help via PM. After talking to my paint shop at length I decided to pass on the peppered up Acclaim. Looks like the converted encores have an additional ~100 lbs of useful with the older style interior etc? Quote
kortopates Posted August 20, 2019 Report Posted August 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, MIm20c said: Paul, thanks for all your help via PM. After talking to my paint shop at length I decided to pass on the peppered up Acclaim. Looks like the converted encores have an additional ~100 lbs of useful with the older style interior etc? The conversion increased max gross by 230lbs, and the net gain in useful load will go up by almost all of that since its puts on very little weight, certainly well over 200 lbs and probably 220-225 lbs. Quote
MIm20c Posted August 20, 2019 Author Report Posted August 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, kortopates said: The conversion increased max gross by 230lbs, and the net gain in useful load will go up by almost all of that since its puts on very little weight, certainly well over 200 lbs and probably 220-225 lbs. Yep, I’ve just noticed the newer non converted units gain some weight and top out around 1000-1050 ish. Quote
kortopates Posted August 20, 2019 Report Posted August 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, MIm20c said: Yep, I’ve just noticed the newer non converted units gain some weight and top out around 1000-1050 ish. Although I have been meticulous about keeping weight down, mine is 1127 lbs with a full glass panel (G500, Dual GTN's, and much much more) and 115 cu ft 02. Although I have yet to find one as good as mine though 4 Quote
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