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100 hour (and other) items, M20F w/ electric gear

chrixxer
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chrixxer Experienced

chrixxer

Posted
Posted

Making sure I'm not missing anything... 1969 M20F, electric gear, Lycoming IO-360-A1A, Hartzell HC-C2YR-1BFP/F7497 (AD 2009-22-03 not applicable). I'm at 100 hours since the last annual (July - November last year, smh). I reviewed the AD list maintained by the FAA and the 2015 and 2016 Airworthiness Directive Compliance Reports generated by LASAR and an A&P in Mariposa (respectively). I believe these are the only 100 hour / recurring items due right now:

Not Yet Due
 

Does anyone know if the AD 75-23-04 "Part I" gear inspection still needs to be done every 200 hours? I'm still scouring the logbooks and putting everything into a database (times like this, I miss being an active member of a fraternity, with pledges providing slave labor ;) )...

Ron McBride Mentor

Ron McBride

Posted
Posted

Chris  

To complete AD 73-21-01 most of the plane has to come apart, some will say complete the Annual at the same time????   This is a, "your choice" item.  Although it will put the plane back in the air sooner.

AD 2015-19-07 is a simple visual inspection and could be completed at any oil changes with the top cowling off.  Should be completed even though not signed when the A&P does a general scan of the engine.

AD 75-23-04 is vague when it comes to the 40:1 gears.  Contact Tom at Top Gun in Stockton.  What he told me is: its not in writing, but his understanding is: It is not due again for 500 hours for the inspection.  I would grease the motor every 100 hours though, I gave you a grease gun with the special grease installed.   IF Tom is not available, ask for Mark.

AD 77-17-04   Double check the hours that AD was completed, with the amount that you are flying you may be near that AD hours requirement.  It seems to me that it was completed at less time that you wrote.

As always, you need to double check all AD's and when they are due. Your mechanic should watch all of these.    I think that you have listed all of them.   I did have printouts in all of that paperwork for you.

Hope this helps.

Enjoy and fly safe

Ron

 

Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, chrixxer said:

Making sure I'm not missing anything... 1969 M20F, electric gear, Lycoming IO-360-A1A, Hartzell HC-C2YR-1BFP/F7497 (AD 2009-22-03 not applicable). I'm at 100 hours since the last annual (July - November last year, smh). I reviewed the AD list maintained by the FAA and the 2015 and 2016 Airworthiness Directive Compliance Reports generated by LASAR and an A&P in Mariposa (respectively). I believe these are the only 100 hour / recurring items due right now:

Not Yet Due
 

Does anyone know if the AD 75-23-04 "Part I" gear inspection still needs to be done every 200 hours? I'm still scouring the logbooks and putting everything into a database (times like this, I miss being an active member of a fraternity, with pledges providing slave labor ;) )...

If this was done to your plane, the SB explains the 500 hour inspection and later inspections.

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4147179/technical_documents/service_instructions/sim20-112_Rev_A.pdf

AlexLev Proficient

AlexLev

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, N803RM said:

To complete AD 73-21-01 most of the plane has to come apart, some will say complete the Annual at the same time????   This is a, "your choice" item.  Although it will put the plane back in the air sooner.

 

I have to complete 73-21-01 about 2-3x per year each year due to flying 2-300hrs/year. It generally takes me about 3-4 hours. I open the plane up (1 hour), mechanic lubes it (0.5 hours), and I put it back together 1-2hours. I wouldn't necessarily call it an annual.

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chrixxer Experienced

chrixxer

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Posted
4 hours ago, N803RM said:

 AD 77-17-04   Double check the hours that AD was completed, with the amount that you are flying you may be near that AD hours requirement.  It seems to me that it was completed at less time that you wrote.

 

I'm going by the logbooks and the AD compliance reports (which match)... ;)

4 hours ago, N803RM said:

AD 75-23-04 is vague when it comes to the 40:1 gears.  Contact Tom at Top Gun in Stockton.  What he told me is: its not in writing, but his understanding is: It is not due again for 500 hours for the inspection.  I would grease the motor every 100 hours though, I gave you a grease gun with the special grease installed.   IF Tom is not available, ask for Mark.

Thanks! Yeah, "Part II" (which is required every 100 hours) is the greasing of the motor. It's just whether the "Part I" inspection is still required after the change (there's some wear and tear involved in complying with it).

4 hours ago, N803RM said:

As always, you need to double check all AD's and when they are due.

Hence, this thread! :) The last annual wasn't done by a Mooney specialist and while I uploaded PDFs of all the logs and earlier AD compliance reports, I don't know how thorough or experienced he was. ("Any port in a storm," though.) Will probably have LASAR do the next annual. Meanwhile, just doing a sanity check to make sure I haven't missed anything.

4 hours ago, N803RM said:

with the amount that you are flying you may be near that AD hours requirement

Only about 170 hours in the last ~11 months (7 of which she was flyable)... :) But that included a holiday trip to St. Louis (including a dinner run with my mom down to Branson; she's been up with me in rentals, but never in my plane before), a couple of round trips to Tucson I won't be repeating...

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chrixxer Experienced

chrixxer

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Posted
3 hours ago, Marauder said:

If this was done to your plane, the SB explains the 500 hour inspection and later inspections.

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4147179/technical_documents/service_instructions/sim20-112_Rev_A.pdf

Excellent, thanks, that was the missing piece.

"Compliance to this Service Instruction M20-112 revises 200 hour inspection of the gears specified in service Bulletin M20-190B. The inspection interval is now per instructions as outlined in Mooney Service and Maintenance Manual for M20J serial numbers 24-0001 thru 24-0377. (reference MAC M20J service maintenance manual section 5-20-06) actuator gear inspection is now: After 500 hours of operation and then every 200 hours thereafter."

Now, when were the gears last inspected...

(I'm building a database to track all of this stuff. 500 hours for this, 200 hours for that...)

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  • 4 months later...
Bob R Community Regular

Bob R

Posted
Posted
On 3/26/2019 at 3:05 PM, chrixxer said:

Excellent, thanks, that was the missing piece.

"Compliance to this Service Instruction M20-112 revises 200 hour inspection of the gears specified in service Bulletin M20-190B. The inspection interval is now per instructions as outlined in Mooney Service and Maintenance Manual for M20J serial numbers 24-0001 thru 24-0377. (reference MAC M20J service maintenance manual section 5-20-06) actuator gear inspection is now: After 500 hours of operation and then every 200 hours thereafter."

Now, when were the gears last inspected...

(I'm building a database to track all of this stuff. 500 hours for this, 200 hours for that...)

Top gun in Stockton did the Dukes gears? I am curious what the parts and labor cost was. I have mine out and looking to find somewhere to have it done.

Thanks, Bob

JimB Proficient

JimB

Posted
Posted

The SB states that: "This Retrofit kit converts 20:1 gear ratio Dukes 4196 and ITT LA11C2110, LA11C2114 and LA11C2115 actuators into 40:1 gear ratio, equivalent to Dukes 1057 actuator." but it doesn't appear to change the part number of the actuator. No where in the instructions does it have you apply a new data plate to the actuator. 

The AD states: "Applies to all Mooney Model M20 series airplanes equipped with Mooney Electric Gear Systems incorporating a Dukes electric landing gear actuator, P/N 4196-00-1C". So without an AMOC, I don't see how the AD isn't still applicable. It's still the same part number.

Mooney should have asked the FAA to issue a fleet wide AMOC or they should of had the part number changed as part of doing the SB. 

Bob R Community Regular

Bob R

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, JimB said:

The SB states that: "This Retrofit kit converts 20:1 gear ratio Dukes 4196 and ITT LA11C2110, LA11C2114 and LA11C2115 actuators into 40:1 gear ratio, equivalent to Dukes 1057 actuator." but it doesn't appear to change the part number of the actuator. No where in the instructions does it have you apply a new data plate to the actuator. 

The AD states: "Applies to all Mooney Model M20 series airplanes equipped with Mooney Electric Gear Systems incorporating a Dukes electric landing gear actuator, P/N 4196-00-1C". So without an AMOC, I don't see how the AD isn't still applicable. It's still the same part number.

Mooney should have asked the FAA to issue a fleet wide AMOC or they should of had the part number changed as part of doing the SB. 

So here it what I came up with. Laser and others told me the 20:1 gears are no longer available. The 40:1 gears range anywhere from $1500 to $1700. Laser has had them on order for a month. I spoke to Top Gun aviation and they called the manufacturer. They were told 4 months from the time you order. REALLY? I could have the parts made as a pilot/owner manufactured part faster and cheaper. UNBELIEVABLE. I called Sarasota and spoke to a guy there. He told me a story about the actuators being interchangable and he had even used one certain type from a Lear. This got me to thinking. I went to my local bone yard and what did I discover? A plethora of actuators with pristine 20:1 gear sets. After calling my AP and verifying this would be okay, I gladly paid $165 for the actuator without motor, took it home, put those gears in my actuator. All that is left to do is check the pre-load and swing the gear. It's a sad day when a manufacturer is not only raping us on the cost, but can't supply the parts in a timely manner. Maybe they don't like spending $20 in steel and $100 for the machining. I'm thinking of making a set of 40:1 gears. BTW, Lasar indicated that for the 40:1 set to fit in the Dukes 4196 housing, most of the time they have to machine it.. I guess Mooney left that out if the Service Instruction.

BR

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MB65E Grand Master

MB65E

Posted
Posted

4 mo is not along time! I’ve waited 5 years for parts on some projects. I’m no longer wow’ed by lead times in aviation. What is the PN of the components from the lead actuator? 

-Matt

MikeOH Grand Master

MikeOH

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bob R said:

So here it what I came up with. Laser and others told me the 20:1 gears are no longer available. The 40:1 gears range anywhere from $1500 to $1700. Laser has had them on order for a month. I spoke to Top Gun aviation and they called the manufacturer. They were told 4 months from the time you order. REALLY? I could have the parts made as a pilot/owner manufactured part faster and cheaper. UNBELIEVABLE. I called Sarasota and spoke to a guy there. He told me a story about the actuators being interchangable and he had even used one certain type from a Lear. This got me to thinking. I went to my local bone yard and what did I discover? A plethora of actuators with pristine 20:1 gear sets. After calling my AP and verifying this would be okay, I gladly paid $165 for the actuator without motor, took it home, put those gears in my actuator. All that is left to do is check the pre-load and swing the gear. It's a sad day when a manufacturer is not only raping us on the cost, but can't supply the parts in a timely manner. Maybe they don't like spending $20 in steel and $100 for the machining. I'm thinking of making a set of 40:1 gears. BTW, Lasar indicated that for the 40:1 set to fit in the Dukes 4196 housing, most of the time they have to machine it.. I guess Mooney left that out if the Service Instruction.

BR

Good for you!

Would you mind sharing the name of the 'boneyard?'  I'd like to buy a spare actuator for myself to keep on hand for when my 20:1 gears go south.

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Bob R Community Regular

Bob R

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Good for you!

Would you mind sharing the name of the 'boneyard?'  I'd like to buy a spare actuator for myself to keep on hand for when my 20:1 gears go south.

Faeth Aircraft in Sacramento. You will need to have them pull the cover to check the gear in question. It's only 6 screws. I live pretty close so any issues, private message me and I can take a look for you. Any boneyard will have them though.

Bob

 

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Bob R Community Regular

Bob R

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, MB65E said:

4 mo is not along time! I’ve waited 5 years for parts on some projects. I’m no longer wow’ed by lead times in aviation. What is the PN of the components from the lead actuator? 

-Matt

It is a long time and if you think the parts will actually come in the time frame quoted, don't believe it. Would have to look up the part numbers as each gear isn't stamped from what I saw. Must have seen 200+ actuators. All very similar but all use the same gear set. There are so many other parts that cross from manufacturer to manufacturer. I highly doubt any of these companies wanted to not did they ever reinvent the wheel. Way too expensive to do so. These components in particular, as well as many, many others, are outsourced. Mooney, for instance, purchases the gear set and reverse engineers the actuator to fit their application. Same with Cessna, Piper, etc. Mooney does not machine the 40:1 gear sets either. It's just a machine shop they hired. I'd bet on it.

Bob

MikeOH Grand Master

MikeOH

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Bob R said:

Faeth Aircraft in Sacramento. You will need to have them pull the cover to check the gear in question. It's only 6 screws. I live pretty close so any issues, private message me and I can take a look for you. Any boneyard will have them though.

Bob

 

Thank you!

Most appreciated!

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