Seeking advice on my first Pre-J Mooney

[Yetti]

Oh yeah:  They are really fun to fly

[jaylw314]

  On 2/26/2019 at 8:12 PM, gsxrpilot said:

This one seems to be in flying condition right now. But your best protection would be a good pre-buy inspection. That will cost $2000 or so.

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Is that what it is costing these days?  I had to pre-buys done in 2015 at Mooney Service Centers, and they were both between $900-1000. 

 @NewMooneyOwner, I wouldn't worry about your flying hours or experience--just get good transition training from a CFI with Mooney experience.  "complex" aircraft are not complex, they just require more understanding (reading and practice) and diligence (checklists and good habits) than other aircraft.  Chance are, you will fly the heck out of a new plane in the first year, so you have the opportunity to get the practice and good habits in.

Also, you won't need ADS-B unless you plan to fly in rule airspace.  The only hard one to avoid is within 30 nm of an airport with a Mode C veil, and (in theory), you will still be able to request prior authorization from ATC ahead of time.

[NewMooneyOwner]

Hi all, thanks again for the great input. I am trying to use the pre-buy checklist from LASAR to do the pre-buy (https://lasar.com/prebuy-check-list)

Beyond that, is there anything else you guys like me to ask the mechanics to check additionally? Thanks. I am trying my best to avoid big surprise. I know it is hard, but I will try my best at least.

[Bob_Belville]

  On 2/26/2019 at 8:11 PM, NewMooneyOwner said:

Hi Bob, thanks for the quick reply. I understood that the paint is not in good condition now. I just recently got a hangar space in a nearby airport after almost 8 months waitling list (about 45-50min drive about 160/month) Do you think this plane is worth to be hangered or tied down should be fine? I can always tie down to an airport which is only 10-15min driving distance.

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It's not all about the paint. Savannah ought to be sunny and humid. Avionics and instruments get awfully hot parked on the ramp. Does the plane have a cover? Then there's the possibility of leaks like the side windows or the avionics access panel in front of the windshield. @Ned Gravel has to tie down his plane in Ontario - no hangars available. I suspect his plane with protective covers, living through ice and snow, is not as stressed as a plane living on a ramp in Savannah. of course you have to do what you have to do.

[ArtVandelay]

  On 2/26/2019 at 9:46 PM, NewMooneyOwner said:

Hi all, thanks again for the great input. I am trying to use the pre-buy checklist from LASAR to do the pre-buy (https://lasar.com/prebuy-check-list)

Beyond that, is there anything else you guys like me to ask the mechanics to check additionally? Thanks. I am trying my best to avoid big surprise. I know it is hard, but I will try my best at least.

1. Corrosion (Mooney experience helps here)

2. Engine health

3. Fuel tanks leaking? (Again Mooney experience helps)

 

When you go for test flight, check avionics, prop, lights, etc., so don’t bother having those checked by AP. You might be able to check for fuel leaks as well if you requested the tanks to be filled before the test flight.

P.S. if you give the mechanic a list of items to check instead of a blank slate, you can reduce your PPI costs, less than $800 is what I would expect.

 

Tom

[gsxrpilot]

@jgarrison just posted that he has an M20G coming in today. He's asking $39K but you should at least take a look to compare.

[Guest]

  On 2/26/2019 at 9:46 PM, NewMooneyOwner said:

Hi all, thanks again for the great input. I am trying to use the pre-buy checklist from LASAR to do the pre-buy (https://lasar.com/prebuy-check-list)

Beyond that, is there anything else you guys like me to ask the mechanics to check additionally? Thanks. I am trying my best to avoid big surprise. I know it is hard, but I will try my best at least.

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My PPI check list is in the downloads section under safety and techniques.  The real killer for Mooney airframes is corrosion, corrosion and corrosion, almost everything else can be un-bolted and replaced.

The wing spars and the steel cage are known problem areas on many models.

Clarence

[Bob_Belville]

  On 2/26/2019 at 10:29 PM, gsxrpilot said:

@jgarrison just posted that he has an M20G coming in today. He's asking $39K but you should at least take a look to compare.

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It is ADS-B already so price is about equal. 

[Sabremech]

I will have my 66 C model for sale in the near future in your price range. It fits Bob’s description fairly well with a higher time engine. It had a gear up in 2005 where the engine bottom end was inspected and the original cylinders put back on. The prop was new in 2005 with no AD. It’s a very decent airplane mechanically that will have a new interior when the annual is complete. Paint isn’t great and could stand some touch up. It’s a very fast C model that has a 154 KTAS. You can see some of the history of this bird by checking the cowling mod threads here on MS. I’m also willing to provide any data requested if you have an interest. My bird is N2652W.

David

[MIm20c]

Always liked the G, not many around. I’d look at this one very soon. The cheapish ones in good condition can go fast. Ad says 300 hrs in the past three years so if parts have been replaced during this time to keep it running good I’d definitely take a look. 

[larrynimmo]

  On 2/26/2019 at 10:07 PM, ArtVandelay said:

1. Corrosion (Mooney experience helps here)

2. Engine health

3. Fuel tanks leaking? (Again Mooney experience helps)

 

When you go for test flight, check avionics, prop, lights, etc., so don’t bother having those checked by AP. You might be able to check for fuel leaks as well if you requested the tanks to be filled before the test flight.

P.S. if you give the mechanic a list of items to check instead of a blank slate, you can reduce your PPI costs, less than $800 is what I would expect.

 

Tom

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Tom said the most critical consideration and that is corrosion....any prebuy inspection should require the removal of wall panels under the pilots side window for examination of corrosion to the steel safety cage.  If the metal is wasted or heavily corroded the plane could easily be "totaled"...even if everything else is perfect.

[NewMooneyOwner]

  On 2/26/2019 at 11:37 PM, Sabremech said:

I will have my 66 C model for sale in the near future in your price range. It fits Bob’s description fairly well with a higher time engine. It had a gear up in 2005 where the engine bottom end was inspected and the original cylinders put back on. The prop was new in 2005 with no AD. It’s a very decent airplane mechanically that will have a new interior when the annual is complete. Paint isn’t great and could stand some touch up. It’s a very fast C model that has a 154 KTAS. You can see some of the history of this bird by checking the cowling mod threads here on MS. I’m also willing to provide any data requested if you have an interest. My bird is N2652W.

David

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Hello David, I am open to either c or g model. Would you mind providing more info on this particular bird? Btw, is gear up really not a big deal? Thx

[Guest]

Mooney airframes are quite strong and handle a gear up usually with little damage.  

Clarence

[Sabremech]

  On 2/27/2019 at 1:46 AM, NewMooneyOwner said:

Hello David, I am open to either c or g model. Would you mind providing more info on this particular bird? Btw, is gear up really not a big deal? Thx

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I’ll put together some information on 52W. Most gear ups are not that big of a deal. Do you have an e-mail address I can send the info to?

Thanks,

David

[NewMooneyOwner]

Hi All, I just found this M20C from ebay. Can any of you give any thoughts? Thanks.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-Mooney-M20C-Ranger-6000TT-40-SMOH-Out-Of-Annual-6-Months/264214670133?hash=item3d846beb35:g:gKEAAOSw35hcdLGB:rk:20:pf:0

[MikeOH]

Hmm, not sure I like the engine issues right after the field overhaul.  As he says, "Radios are terrible"...seems like you could do better for a first plane.

[Smiles201]

No one has mentioned the advantages of having a partner or two. Really helps with costs, and someone with experience in ownership may also better understand how to manage maintenance issues.  I once had two great partners, we scheduled the plane on outlook, and availability was never a problem.

[Austintatious]

  On 2/26/2019 at 6:53 PM, NewMooneyOwner said:

Thanks for all the quick replies within such a short amount of time. Can anyone of you look at this Mooney to give me some opinion? I am really short on budget, just cannot afford 50-60k Mooney. This one is priced out around 35k, and fits within my budget really well. Anything particular I need to be aware of if I really wanna look into this plane? Thanks.

 

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20G+STATESMAN&listing_id=2315646&s-type=aircraft

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ok, not a mooney expert at all.  However I have been around aviation my entire life and slept at a holiday inn last week... grab your salt and read on.

There are some things you should know.

1st of all, that engine is mid life.  Which is fine.  In 800 or so hours (can vary wildly depending on how engine was cared for) it will likely need an overhaul.  I dont know exactly what they run for that engine but could very well be what that aircraft is priced at... Perhaps someone who knows a bit more could chime in with what that would cost.  800 hours is a lot.  You could take 3 years or 10 years to do that, it just depends on how much you fly.   If I was looking at that aircraft I would want to know how often it is being flown... Has it sat for extended times without being flown?  What were the compressions on the last annual?  How long ago was it overhauled?

Keep in mind, Paint is NOT cheap.  looks like 10-15k is going rate for a strip and paint depending one what you want.

Also, the ADS-B mandate is right around the corner.  You have less than a year to comply and that will cost you between 1800-5000.00 to do so.   The cheap way out is for a tail beacon type setup.  The more expensive option will get you a new transponder that can talk with your Ipad and get you weather on a program like fore flight.

they dont mention any damage history, but you want to know about it if it exist and you want to find out who did the repairs and if they have a good rep.

 

The last thing you should know (and likely do assuming you have read about buying an aircraft) is that at that price, you are purchasing an airworthy aircraft.  You need to find a shop, preferably a mooney service center and pay them to do a pre purchase inspection.  During that inspection any deficiencies found are to be rectified by the seller with the price remaining the same.  If the seller does not agree to this, be willing to walk.  Think about it... if you had an aircraft and took good care of it and didnt cut corners on maintenance, would you refuse that deal?

 

 

 

[zaitcev]

I looked at a dozen of $35k Mooneys, they all had serious red flags, not always disclosed upfront. Even seen one that was flooded in a hurricane, as I found out by looking at Internet search. This is why I ended buying a $48k Mooney. It had some dubious history, being a re-import from Japan, and 2 gear-ups, but at least there wasn't any outright corrosion.

I don't know how people manage to score the $35k deals. It was exhausting. Maybe if you were into the aviation for 20 years and a friend of a friend offered a deal to good people, I can see that happening. At my former field, a community member passed west and left a Bo and a 170. His widow was letting go of that 170 for a very good price.

[jaylw314]

  On 2/28/2019 at 7:38 PM, zaitcev said:

I looked at a dozen of $35k Mooneys, they all had serious red flags, not always disclosed upfront. Even seen one that was flooded in a hurricane, as I found out by looking at Internet search. This is why I ended buying a $48k Mooney. It had some dubious history, being a re-import from Japan, and 2 gear-ups, but at least there wasn't any outright corrosion.

I don't know how people manage to score the $35k deals. It was exhausting. Maybe if you were into the aviation for 20 years and a friend of a friend offered a deal to good people, I can see that happening. At my former field, a community member passed west and left a Bo and a 170. His widow was letting go of that 170 for a very good price.

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I can sympathize, I ended up buying a plane that was about 40% higher than my original plan.   I originally thought, "hey, I'll just buy a basic older model," I don't need anything fancy.  Turns out, trying to buy a basic older model became such a frustrating experience, and I didn't have the time or energy to research every detail that came up.  I just ended up buying a plane that was probably more than I really needed (even if it was still well valued), just to get it done.