ADSB... uAvionix

[MooneyMitch]

Cliffy, point we’ll taken and I did consider this issue prior to wiring as such.....and I’m trying to come with a good argument against your input..... but, I’m not being very successful at that.

With that said, my little mini-Mooney doesn’t do IMC during day or nighttime.  On the ground, and if I’m concerned about being rude to another aircraft close to me ( which of course, I would be), I’d turn off the ADS-B........ (I know, I know, ADS-B is for ground tracking too)!

Also, my belly beacon is a strobe with half clear lens (front) and half red lens (rear).  Should I turn that off on the ground too? 

And there’s FAR 91.209 (b) too !

Cirrus..... should that word be allowed in a Mooney forum?  LOL.

I might reconsider and wire the little skyBeacon strobe to a separate switch.

Regardless, thank you for your input.

[cliffy]

Actually that was my first thought also but then I had an epiphany about night time and the strobes. Pulling new wires through the wing is not my idea of fun but its on the list in 2 weeks after other things get done on the annual. Right now the electric retract step is going in.  

[RLCarter]

7 hours ago, cliffy said:

MooneyMitch

How are you going to control the strobes on the ground around other aircraft? Or, in IMC at night if you don't want them on?

Can't turn them off wired the way you say.

Take the Nav light wire off from the nav switch and wire it so they come on with the master, run a wire thru each wing for the strobes and to the original nav switch, ADS-B is now on any time the master is and the strobes can be controlled as needed

[tomslupilot]

The strobe can be toggled on or off in the sky beacon app.  

The skybeacon wifi/app only works on the ground but this allows you to turn the strobe off while taxiing around other aircraft at night.

I had the skybeacon installed at Sun N Fun.  They were running a $100 installation at Sun N Fun.  So far, all seems good.

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by tomslupilot

[cliffy]

Tom,

Say what? OK I'll check that tomorrow. If it works It'll save me a lot of work. Thanks for the idea. 

I presume that is the way they hooked your Skybeacon up? Just the one tip light wire and toggle the strobe on the app? COOL idea. I don't do IFR at night where I might also need to turn them off in flight and I limit my night flying so I'm  a basically a day VFR flyer now so the need to turn them off would only be very occasional on a late arrival while taxiing. Got to see how bright they are day time as to whether or not I'll toggle in the day time.

RU waiting for the right side also like me? 

BTW check the paint job in my avitar. We look a lot alike :-)

Edited April 9, 2019 by cliffy

[carusoam]

$100 installation at a fly-in... and there’s an app for that! 

Wait there’s more... they’re wearing the same designer clothes!

One of the best posts of the week! 

Best regards,

-a-

[nels]

Has anyone installed a Skybeacon on a J model? 

Edited April 9, 2019 by nels

[Kmac]

On 1/14/2019 at 12:22 PM, bob865 said:

Wanted to throw this out there for anyone who is considering a skyBeacon.  Make sure to check the transponder threshold with this procedure.  I installed mine and all looked good.  I assumed the squawk would come in when I got airborn and had a radar interrogation.  It did, but the lag gave me a maximum consecutive failures for Mode 3A and flight ID.  I made the changes per these direcions and now it picks it up almost immediately.  Flew breifly to verify it's fixed on another report and it is working fine.  Not more failures.  I need to do my validation fight again so I can get my rebate.

https://uavionix.com/support/skybeacon/mode-3a-failure-on-papr/

Just had the same result...will change the threshold value and try again.  It was picking up the squawk code on the ground before take off.  

[bob865]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 2:00 AM, cliffy said:

Tom,

Say what? OK I'll check that tomorrow. If it works It'll save me a lot of work. Thanks for the idea. 

I presume that is the way they hooked your Skybeacon up? Just the one tip light wire and toggle the strobe on the app? COOL idea. I don't do IFR at night where I might also need to turn them off in flight and I limit my night flying so I'm  a basically a day VFR flyer now so the need to turn them off would only be very occasional on a late arrival while taxiing. Got to see how bright they are day time as to whether or not I'll toggle in the day time.

RU waiting for the right side also like me? 

BTW check the paint job in my avitar. We look a lot alike :-)

Remember the wifi turns off 5 minutes after startup.  You will be able to toggle the strobe for the first 5 minutes.  After that it will stay wherever it was until you power cycle the skybeacon to get the wifi back.

[cliffy]

Thinking of that-  IF one was flying IFR at night and needed to turn off the strobes in IMC one might be able to momentarily turn off the nav lights (depowering the Skybeacon also) turn them back on and wifi disable the strobes for as long as needed. Granted ADSB would drop out for the turn off but come back on. Interesting thought. Cycle again when strobes were wanted again. 

[skydvrboy]

23 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Thinking of that-  IF one was flying IFR at night and needed to turn off the strobes in IMC one might be able to momentarily turn off the nav lights (depowering the Skybeacon also) turn them back on and wifi disable the strobes for as long as needed. Granted ADSB would drop out for the turn off but come back on. Interesting thought. Cycle again when strobes were wanted again. 

You sound just like my teenage boy.  I'm often amazed at the trouble he will go through to avoid a minor amount of work. 

Really, how hard is it to pull a wire?  You tie a string on the wire that is there now, pull it back out of the wing, tie on the new wire, and pull them both back into the wing.  Once you've figured out where the wire needs to go, your looking at a 15 minute job.  Working with my dad, who was an electrician, I've pulled new wire through an entire house in less than 4 hours.

I've got to hand it to him though, sometimes he comes up with some really elaborate and creative solutions to a simple problem.  One Saturday, he spent the whole day designing and building an automatic chicken watering system, so he wouldn't have to carry a bucket of water out to the chicken house each day.

[bob865]

38 minutes ago, skydvrboy said:

You sound just like my teenage boy.  I'm often amazed at the trouble he will go through to avoid a minor amount of work. 

Really, how hard is it to pull a wire?  You tie a string on the wire that is there now, pull it back out of the wing, tie on the new wire, and pull them both back into the wing.  Once you've figured out where the wire needs to go, your looking at a 15 minute job.  Working with my dad, who was an electrician, I've pulled new wire through an entire house in less than 4 hours.

I've got to hand it to him though, sometimes he comes up with some really elaborate and creative solutions to a simple problem.  One Saturday, he spent the whole day designing and building an automatic chicken watering system, so he wouldn't have to carry a bucket of water out to the chicken house each day.

Sounds like your son has "The Knack."

 

[skydvrboy]

That cartoon describes him pretty well.  He wants to be a nuclear engineer, almost immediately understands mechanical, electrical, and computer stuff, and is completely inept in social situations.  He might get a lot of that from his engineer father, especially the social aspect. 

[Kmac]

Ok...yesterday I had a mode 3A failure so I reduced the threshold.  I flew again today and had a flight ID failure but mode 3A was good.  Anyone know what to do? 

[cliffy]

skydvrboy= have you actually tried to pull the wires in a Mooney? Have you ever tried to remove all the inspection panels that would need to be pulled IF you couldn't pull the wires correctly? How many screws did you have to drill out and replace when you did? Have you ever actually tried to feed the wires through the inspection holes when they didn't pull the "easy" way?

While it may work correctly 49 out of 50 times its that 50th time that makes it a B(*&h. I just prefer not to take the chance and with the way I fly now I don't have to.  I've been an A&P for 55 years working on everything from 747s on down to J3s. Can't see anything derogatory about doing this way.

[bob865]

10 hours ago, Kmac said:

Ok...yesterday I had a mode 3A failure so I reduced the threshold.  I flew again today and had a flight ID failure but mode 3A was good.  Anyone know what to do? 

Can you post a screenshot of your papr?  Specifically the page where I'm assuming you see red blocks and a MCF (maximum continuous failues).

If I recall/understand the report correctly, a 3A failure means that the FAA recieved data frames with the squawk code missing.  A Flight ID failure would be that the Squawk from your transponder and the squawk broadcast by your ADS-B set, skybeacon in your case, do not match.  In my massively untrained opinion, it sounds like you need to adjust your threshold a little more.  It sounds like the skybeacon is picking up your squawk, but it's picking it up slowly.  As long as you are getting radar interrogation on your nomal mode C transponder on the ground, the skybeacon should pick up the squawk very quickly. 

I'm guessing you flew and picked up flight following or something in the air.  They assigned you a different squawk than you took off with and you switched while in the air.  That's when the flight ID faults showed up.  The transponder starting replying with the the new squawk, but the skybeacon took a little while to hear the new squawk and reset itself.

[Kmac]

1 hour ago, bob865 said:

Can you post a screenshot of your papr?  Specifically the page where I'm assuming you see red blocks and a MCF (maximum continuous failues).

If I recall/understand the report correctly, a 3A failure means that the FAA recieved data frames with the squawk code missing.  A Flight ID failure would be that the Squawk from your transponder and the squawk broadcast by your ADS-B set, skybeacon in your case, do not match.  In my massively untrained opinion, it sounds like you need to adjust your threshold a little more.  It sounds like the skybeacon is picking up your squawk, but it's picking it up slowly.  As long as you are getting radar interrogation on your nomal mode C transponder on the ground, the skybeacon should pick up the squawk very quickly. 

I'm guessing you flew and picked up flight following or something in the air.  They assigned you a different squawk than you took off with and you switched while in the air.  That's when the flight ID faults showed up.  The transponder starting replying with the the new squawk, but the skybeacon took a little while to hear the new squawk and reset itself.

I did put a support ticket in with uAvionix...

I am flying in a mode C veil each time not talking to ATC so squawking 1200 the whole time.  

Enclosed are screenshots of the PAPR's

 

[bob865]

@Kmac I'm at a loss then.  Let us know what uavionix has to say.

[floridaflyer]

14 hours ago, cliffy said:

skydvrboy= have you actually tried to pull the wires in a Mooney? Have you ever tried to remove all the inspection panels that would need to be pulled IF you couldn't pull the wires correctly? How many screws did you have to drill out and replace when you did? Have you ever actually tried to feed the wires through the inspection holes when they didn't pull the "easy" way?

While it may work correctly 49 out of 50 times its that 50th time that makes it a B(*&h. I just prefer not to take the chance and with the way I fly now I don't have to.  I've been an A&P for 55 years working on everything from 747s on down to J3s. Can't see anything derogatory about doing this way.

So we're installing the SkyBeacon on my Rocket. Hooking up the SB power input wires to the original nav light wires is a no brainer since I never fly without the nav lights on. The challenge is wiring the SB strobe input wire so that it turns on when the strobe light switch is on. It's not possible to use the existing wire coming from the Wheelen power supply unit to the strobe light as a fishing line (as was suggested in a prior post) to pull a new wire from the 24V supply to the SkyBeacon, because on my plane the wires are bundled and secured inside the wing so they don't want to be pulled. Instead, we're going to use one of the existing output wires from the Wheelen power supply. The wire is already in place and all we have to do is connect it to the 24V input on the Wheelen power supply side and connect it to the SB strobe input wire and voila, strobe light goes on when strobe switch is on. We'll disconnect the Wheelen unit as it's no longer needed. That's our plan at least.

[kortopates]

So we're installing the SkyBeacon on my Rocket. Hooking up the SB power input wires to the original nav light wires is a no brainer since I never fly without the nav lights on. The challenge is wiring the SB strobe input wire so that it turns on when the strobe light switch is on. It's not possible to use the existing wire coming from the Wheelen power supply unit to the strobe light as a fishing line (as was suggested in a prior post) to pull a new wire from the 24V supply to the SkyBeacon, because on my plane the wires are bundled and secured inside the wing so they don't want to be pulled. Instead, we're going to use one of the existing output wires from the Wheelen power supply. The wire is already in place and all we have to do is connect it to the 24V input on the Wheelen power supply side and connect it to the SB strobe input wire and voila, strobe light goes on when strobe switch is on. We'll disconnect the Wheelen unit as it's no longer needed. That's our plan at least.

Just bypass the Whelen power supply - so that the power input wire to the power supply gets connected to the power supply strobe output wire going out to the wing tip - no new wire required. But you may have to change the connector on one side of Whelen power supply so you have both a male and female connector. They should be AMP connectors. That’s what I did and then you can pull your power supply and gain about 2.5 lbs useful.

Please verify you have separate leads for Strobe and Nav on SB - people have told me they only had one.

But be aware, if not already, that using Nav lights in daylight automatically dims your gear light making it much harder to see the green gear down light in daylight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[floridaflyer]

All good points, you’re basically describing what we’re doing although we’re going to hardwire so will skip the connectors. Gear down light is bright enough with nav lights on and I always check the floor gear indicator before landing anyways. Didn’t know some SB have only 2 wires mine has all 3 wires. 

[cliffy]

The gear down light won't be bright enough on a Comanche I can guarantee that!

[skydvrboy]

On 4/18/2019 at 8:53 PM, cliffy said:

skydvrboy= have you actually tried to pull the wires in a Mooney? Have you ever tried to remove all the inspection panels that would need to be pulled IF you couldn't pull the wires correctly? How many screws did you have to drill out and replace when you did? Have you ever actually tried to feed the wires through the inspection holes when they didn't pull the "easy" way?

While it may work correctly 49 out of 50 times its that 50th time that makes it a B(*&h. I just prefer not to take the chance and with the way I fly now I don't have to.  I've been an A&P for 55 years working on everything from 747s on down to J3s. Can't see anything derogatory about doing this way.

OK, I see your point and I'm man enough to admit I was wrong.  I went to the plane today to see about pulling a wire to run my strobe.  There were about a dozen zip ties in the tail before the wire entered the belly area.  I knew if there was even one more zip tie after that point, pulling the wire would be more work than I wanted to get into, removing inspection plates, belly panels, etc. just to find all the zip ties.  Taking even one inspection plate off and replacing it takes me more than 15 minutes.

Since I already had a strobe wire bundle for the Whelen, I just used one of the existing wires to run the power to the strobe.  In the end, I'll end up with the same result, both strobes come on with the strobe switch.  One interesting side note, the SkyBeacon strobe will only work when the Nav light is powered.  If I for some reason turn on the strobe without the Nav lights, only my right strobe will work (though I don't know when I'd ever do that intentionally).

i still think it would be a royal pain to use the app to turn off/on the strobe light.  But, if you're OK with the strobe being on all the time, powering it off the Nav light is a simple solution.

[cliffy]

Your issue of turning the nav lights off is a good one but the way I see it they have to be on from start of taxi to stop of taxi per the ADSB rules so that the ADSB system stays lit all the time. Like you, I can see no reason right now that I'd want to do that. 

I have a "smarter than me" smart phone on velcro in my left side window well with Avare on it and I'll just put the app on it and use it for the strobes. I don't expect I'll be doing much night flying where I would have to turn off the strobes around other ground traffic. I only do "some" night stuff arriving back at home drome and here I am the only moving traffic when I arrive. What the next owner will do is up to him. 

[kortopates]

12 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

OK, I see your point and I'm man enough to admit I was wrong.  I went to the plane today to see about pulling a wire to run my strobe.  There were about a dozen zip ties in the tail before the wire entered the belly area.  I knew if there was even one more zip tie after that point, pulling the wire would be more work than I wanted to get into, removing inspection plates, belly panels, etc. just to find all the zip ties.  Taking even one inspection plate off and replacing it takes me more than 15 minutes.

Since I already had a strobe wire bundle for the Whelen, I just used one of the existing wires to run the power to the strobe.  In the end, I'll end up with the same result, both strobes come on with the strobe switch.  One interesting side note, the SkyBeacon strobe will only work when the Nav light is powered.  If I for some reason turn on the strobe without the Nav lights, only my right strobe will work (though I don't know when I'd ever do that intentionally).

i still think it would be a royal pain to use the app to turn off/on the strobe light.  But, if you're OK with the strobe being on all the time, powering it off the Nav light is a simple solution.

Its really not that hard to pull a wire through the wing or the tail. Perhaps hardest through the cabin if the interior side wall plastic isn't already off. You shouldn't find any of the wires in the belly area of the cockpit, you should find them all along the interior side wall on the pilot side.  Pulling the inspection panels in the wing isn't a big job and you're not even pulling every panel but of course easier during annual when you'll already have most of it not all of the ones needed already off. But the string trick to pull one doesn't always work that well. Other tricks that work quite well in longer runs is using a long piece of piano hinge wire but I prefer a long piece of plastic nylo tubing since its not sharp and still flexible.  The leading 3-4 feet is made stiff enough to push through holes by heating it with a heat gun. Its works really well. 

But since you have a strobe lights going out to where you're installing the beacon, and I assume the tail, I also assume you need the wire for the nav-light & transponder since you don't have a nav light on the tail? if so, I think I would prefer to pull a new wire for the beacon power and nav light and put it on its own circuit breaker or the existing transponder CB and always be "on" with the avionics buss on. That way I could retain the strobe switch to turn on/off the strobes. Without the rotating beacon, having the strobes on during the day with the nav lights off is standard practice. The tail position light is superfluous anyway. The UAT always has to be on, so can that tail position light - but just wouldn't want my position lights always switch on with the resulting dimming of my gear down light in the daytime. If really pulling a wire anyway, you have options on how to power it.