Can't upgrade avionics if i wanted to

[McMooney]

yeah, not as good as black walnut but really tasty

[bradp]

What's the unit that is currently failing? 

I have experience with the DIY panel installation - almost full refurb that I did with IA supervision.

There are some gotchas.  Finding an IA willing to sign off on your work is the most gotcha-ey.   They will be much more willing to do so if there is an STC for an IFR installation rather than needing to create a "follow-on" 337 from another plane on an STC AML or having to do a 337 for an IFR installation. 

An alternative - be on the look out for a maintenance shop that is looking to get into avionics work.  You might be a test case for them, but they might be willing to work with you to get the experience they need to be a legit avionics outfit.

 

[INA201]

Can you just buy a cheapish replacement and slide it in for now? You never said what the unit was so I’m interpolating. Get the IFR done while waiting then sell the slide in temporary replacement for more money, just kidding, the same money.

[McMooney]

8 hours ago, bradp said:

What's the unit that is currently failing? 

I have experience with the DIY panel installation - almost full refurb that I did with IA supervision.

There are some gotchas.  Finding an IA willing to sign off on your work is the most gotcha-ey.   They will be much more willing to do so if there is an STC for an IFR installation rather than needing to create a "follow-on" 337 from another plane on an STC AML or having to do a 337 for an IFR installation.  

An alternative - be on the look out for a maintenance shop that is looking to get into avionics work.  You might be a test case for them, but they might be willing to work with you to get the experience they need to be a legit avionics outfit.

 

mind translating the following for those not fluent in FAA 8) :  "if there is an STC for an IFR installation rather than needing to create a "follow-on" 337 from another plane on an STC AML or having to do a 337 for an IFR installation.  "

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

35 minutes ago, McMooney said:

mind translating the following for those not fluent in FAA 8) :  "if there is an STC for an IFR installation rather than needing to create a "follow-on" 337 from another plane on an STC AML or having to do a 337 for an IFR installation.  "

Modern avionics, or stuff that did not come from the factory, comes with an STC giving the authorization to install in a given airplane. It also gives the conditions that must be met to comply with the STC. If you differ from those instructions, you have to apply for a 337. To get a 337 approved, it helps if someone else has already done the same and gotten a 337 approved. Then you can just copy it and the likelihood of yours getting approved is much higher.

For example installing an Aspen PFD requires a backup AI. But the Garmin G5 is not approved to be that back up. So installing that combination would require a 337. Of course many of us have done it. There are other AI's that are approved per the Aspen STC as backups. Installing one of those means no special 337.

[McMooney]

It has an AML STC under which the m20e is listed. 

Installation will be per the gns480 installation manual with mostly listed equipment, exception being a brittain autopilot.

If i'm reading the instructions properly, even the brittain autopilot would be approved as it understands standard NAV Left/Right.

I have the previous 337 from when the gps was last installed, could almost copy it verbatim.

[Yetti]

So it currently has a ________________  GPS  and you are installing a GNS480 that you are purchasing?

What com/nav do you currently have that is on the fritz?

 

Com/Navs are not that hard to replace.  What audio panel do you have?

What indicator do you have?

 

[McMooney]

currently,

kma20  -- audio panel

stratus esgi -- transponder

mx170b  -- nav1

kx170b -- nav2

kn-64 -- dme

ki-214 -- vor/loc/ils with GS radio built in

ki-201c -- vor/loc

 

problem is between the main nav and the ki-214,  not that easy to replace unfortunately.  spent a few thousand last year messing with it

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by McMooney

[Shadrach]

13 minutes ago, McMooney said:

currently,

kma20  -- audio panel

stratus esgi -- transponder

mx170b  -- nav1

kx170b -- nav2

kn-64 -- dme

ki-214 -- vor/loc/ils with GS radio built in

ki-201c -- vor/loc

 

problem is between the main nav and the ki-214,  not that easy to replace unfortunately.  spent a few thousand last year messing with it

 

Huh? There are loads of MX 170Bs on the used market right now. Slide in replacement, you don’t even need an A&P to install.

[Yetti]

We were in the same place.   Would you consider KX-155 and a KI-204  for Com2?    That is what I did, I am going to keep it even if/ when I go to skyview.  You are still need to bite the bullet and do the audio panel.  APs are the most work.  It's 3 days of work to do the audio panel. 

[McMooney]

14 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Huh? There are loads of MX 170Bs on the used market right now. Slide in replacement, you don’t even need an A&P to install.

already tried swapping the radios, same issue.  If the issue is the ki-214 there's almost no replacing that thing. Been chasing this issue for almost a year now, over it.

going to replace everything involved, radio, audio panel, antenna, cabling.

[McMooney]

16 minutes ago, Yetti said:

We were in the same place.   Would you consider KX-155 and a KI-204  for Com2?    That is what I did, I am going to keep it even if/ when I go to skyview.  You are still need to bite the bullet and do the audio panel.  APs are the most work.  It's 3 days of work to do the audio panel. 

Ordered a PMA 8000G, can't wait to get it installed in Birdy.

[bradp]

^^ that.  I was just trying to say if there’s an STC installation is a lot less complex from a paperwork standpoint than something for which you need to present the “approved data”.  

I see why you want to add a GPS.  

480 is a robust box to be had for about 5k used. Not as common as a 430 but quite powerful and feature filled. It also has more connectivity in some respects (ports) but lacks “paperwork connectivity” for integration with some other avionics (ie as a source for WAAS for some Adsb boxes - your esg not applicable if it’s got the integrated GPS)   

Most important: Have a good idea of where you want to go with your panel in the next 5-10 years of ownership if you plan to keep it that long.  Most people would say do all the avionics uogrades for the next 5-10 years at the same time. This will save in labor / downtime long term but most people  don’t have the budget to put the half or more of the value of the plane into a panel.  So you need to have a good idea of where you are going with the panel even if you only want to do 1-2 things now.  

Will the equipment play nicely together?  Plan for a retrofit autopilot? Plan to present nav data graphically on the panel or via a tablet (former rec a panel mount Garmin portable or GNS 530/ Avidyne 540 / GTN 750)?  What happens when the 480 kicks it? Service and keep it another panel upgrade at that point? Want a steam 6-pack or a glass PFD/HSI presentation.  You know that the KI-214 won’t work with a GPS Nav box- the KI-209A, Garmin GI-109A/B or Equivalent mid continent CDI will. Plan another $1400-1500 (used) for the CDI or another $2500-2900 plus labor for a G5 HSI/ magnetometer (I don’t recall the GPSS being able to work with brittain autopilots but I’m not sure).   

Btw Is the current problem isolated to the KI-214 then? Most avionics shops have these laying around.  Could easily swap to at least figure out what equipment is salvageable or sellable.  

 

Below is my DIY “budget” panel.  Everything used except for the G5’s.  Done in stages - 1. was a single G5, 2. was a 430W, GTX 330ES, PS audio panel and G5 HSI/Gad29b/GMU11/stormscope. All the labor is my own (has to be about 100 hrs in it).

Only plans are for a new Nav2 if the KX-170 kicks it and a GFC-500 autopilot when that is approved.  But I know everything will work together...

[steingar]

Boxes are for the most part plug and play.  If your box is that badly on the fritz and they can't repair it at Bevan Revel or Mayday you can buy another box on Ebay or wherever and just screw it in.  If its the same box the connections should all line up and you're good to go.  No avionics shop, no A&P.

[Yetti]

I would be guessing time for some new coax and new radio shops.  It's kind of weird.  If you go with the older stuff like a KX155 I can't find an STC for those, then an A&P could sign off on the install.   If you go with newer stuff then an STC and 337 would necessitate an IA to sign off since A&P can't do the forms.   It is not really supposed to make sense. 

[Baker Avionics]

I just sent you an estimate and can get you in ASAP.  I have openings.  Come on out!!!!

[McMooney]

woot all the bits and bobs are here,  just need to get it installed.  REALLY RELLY Tempted to fly the mooney to Sacremento.

 

Even purchased new stereo Headphone jacks.  Wish aviation stuff came in shiny packaging, not much to drool over.

The Audio Panel comes with a warning to NOT open the box, pfft.

Edited October 10, 2018 by McMooney

[Baker Avionics]

Well come on!  You let me know when you will be here and we will make a spot for you. Like I said on the phone, I will make sure you have a ride to SMF to go home while we work on it.  Call me so we can get this going for you before weather hits.