Pireps on firewall forward HP + STC

[carusoam]

An E with a fancy cowl is pretty quick... somebody said just add lightness... Colin Chapman, Lotus...

So is a J with an IO550... somebody else said there is no replacement for displacement... Don Garlits, NHRA racer, owner, car builder....

Lopresti got things to go faster just by curving things in a more Aero kind of way... aero engineer working at Mooney during the modernization of the M20J

Can you get a Missile, with a Lopresti cowl, and high compression pistons...?

The IO550 in the experimental world cranks out a whole lot more hp than 310...

Fun stuff from the archives...

Best regards,

-a-

[Sandman993]

One last thread hijack, but y’all gotta see this! Picture doesn’t do it justice, but this was taken from a football field away.

[jetdriven]

My 50w HID lights up the runway numbers enough to make them out from TWO MILES out.  It a tight beam but it’s very bright where it lands. 

It also lights up the whole side of the house a half mile past the departure end of the runway when you over-flare a landing. 

[N9201A]

So the huge difference is the nose cowl and the windscreen. I always feared getting a spanking from a c or an e that had sprung for those mods. I’ve heard an e with the 201 mods is not to be trifled with.

I have flown form with a C that has the 201 nose/windscreen mods, on his 180 HP he stayed on my wing at 145 knots TAS. It’s impressive; those aerodynamic tweaks make a big difference.

[Sandman993]

I looked at mfg date for the new landing light purchase and it was make about a month prior to the big air show... it also says 60w. 

I called LoPresti to say how satisfied I am and rate it right up there with the invention of boneless chicken and maybe even, my first bicycle.

[carusoam]

 @Curt LoPresti recently stopped by another thread regarding HID lighting... installation and latest revision number...

Best regards,

-a-

[Sandman993]

Checking in with y'all at 80hrs SMOH and I'm over the moon happy with this little racehorse. Think overhaul was like mid summer 18...Oil analysis showing so far so good. My hangar mate with the same 201 and 3 blade says I probably have at least 10kts on him in cruise. Kudos to FWF

 

[carusoam]

Sand,

Got any FF vs speed data?

With the increased CR of your pistons, there could be some improved efficiency noted...

Kind of in the range of changing the ignition timing... from 20° to 25° BTDC.

Its a thermodynamics thing, in terms of getting more energy out of the same gallon of gas...

It would be really interesting if the data actually proves that thermodynamics actually works!

It would probably be really helpful if able to run LOP, close to or at peak.  Pick a good altitude for that...

How is your GAMI spread? Got any JPI graphs to go with that? 

Best regards,

-a-

[Sandman993]

I need to buy gami's...spoke to them at Oshkosh and they didn't have any in stock. My JPI is the 700 and therefore doesn't give me anything other than real time which is good enough. I have a few friends with 830's and at night, they pollute the flight deck with unwelcomed light imo. For those that have 830's, good on ya, but since I can see CHT's and EGT's on what I have...I'm ok. That said, I try to keep CHT"s below 370 and only one culprit (#3) has to be watched. The engine seems pretty happy and the LOP numbers are really great and cool. I'm running 25 degrees BTC and it was at 28...albeit powerful, that brings with it, some hard starts. At 25BTC...she has better manors. If you saw my flightaware numbers before and after...you'd see substantial increases across the board in terms of cruise. I know that's not science, but she's doing it. Between the power plant and the avionics, I've managed to buy the plane back last year...actually more than I paid. My ship though and she can take me and a babe anywhere.

[carusoam]

I have a JPI700 series as well... downloading data out of it requires a couple of wires/plugs... all available from JPI.

Some MSers have been known to build their own cables for this...

4 cylinder Lycomings most often don’t need specialized fuel injectors, they are pretty well balanced on their own...

Search on GAMI around here... there is a recent discussion about this...

Best regards,

-a-

[Sandman993]

Thanks Carusoam... I always enjoy your input. One thing I’ve always noticed is the #3 cylinder runs hotter on cht’s by about 15 to 20 degrees. Always did. Now, there’s the possibility that since 3 is measured by the spark plug and I have read the thread as well as other articles and some mfg input. Lycoming wrote that the cht measured at the spark plug can read 30 degrees hotter than the others. That doesn’t explain why 3 is the hottest egt typically. The guy at the gami counter in Oshkosh literally knew my number 3 was a troublemaker before I said anything. Suffice it to say, I keep a close eye on cht’s.

i once knew an old career pilot that introduced me to a Pratt and Whitney poster chart that literally showed how long cylinders would last at given temps. Lower temps of course mean longer life. The salty old pilot gave me a formula for the tbo cylinder... basically it was add the cht and the egt numbers together and don’t go over 1700 and your scrap iron will last as long as the bottom end.

[jetdriven]

EGT numbers in and of themselves  have no bearing on cylinder or valve longevity.  I also fail to see how incorporating that into a formula has any validity.

However, keep your CHT below 400f and they will last a very long time  

 

[jetdriven]

13 hours ago, Sandman993 said:

Checking in with y'all at 80hrs SMOH and I'm over the moon happy with this little racehorse. Think overhaul was like mid summer 18...Oil analysis showing so far so good. My hangar mate with the same 201 and 3 blade says I probably have at least 10kts on him in cruise. Kudos to FWF

 

In god we trust, but all others bring hard data. I prefer the 3-track GPS groundspeed method. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by jetdriven

[Sandman993]

Aww man? Now I gotta go do some research! I usually prefer the pull along side and... yeah it’s me, gotta go, see ya, method. However, I’ve seen a picture of your red tail ship and if it looks as good under the cowl as it does on the outside, I might better let you alone. 

 

[Sandman993]

My notion is, 400 degrees is too hot!  It is well known that a cylinder loses around half its strength at that temp. My personal goal is to hang out in the 350’s rop albeit that means my #3 reads around 370. Sometimes that means 12gph at lower altitudes on those short hops to lunch or certain segments of training missions. 

The fella that told me about the 1700 notion was probably trying to convey an important ideal. I played with it for a spell and found that achievement of 1700 usually meant I was taking pretty good care of the engine. Someday I might see that big Pratt poster again that gives expected cylinder life based on temperature where it’s operated and without fail, I’ll snap a picture and share. 

Another major enemy of engines are those cold starts... I’m lucky to have a good engine pre-heater that I use often. As I understand it, it’s almost criminal to light the engine with the thick oil we use at temps at or below 40f. I now have a switchbox that allows a simple text from the phone to turn on the heater (any number of hours based on ambient) hours before I arrive at the airport. Then start up and immediate taxi for departure instead of wasting 15 minutes waiting for the oil and cylinders to warm up. It drives me nuts to watch folks start up and leave with cold iron. Correct me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t the engine oil achieve min 140f before we enter the runway? Food for thought and maybe pause for any new guys here.

hows that for a long winded sidebar?

 

 

[Pete M]

Lycon claims a 5 to 8 hp increase per cylinder with a port & polish & flow match. 220Hp? Add a challenger filter a nd power flow exaust maybe. Seems conservatively 225 is possible without the risk and associated wear of higher compression pistons. No direct experience but seems worth a call to lycon at overhaul time. Would be interested in hearing anyones direct experience.

Pete

[Sandman993]

19 hours ago, Pete M said:

Lycon claims a 5 to 8 hp increase per cylinder with a port & polish & flow match. 220Hp? Add a challenger filter a nd power flow exaust maybe. Seems conservatively 225 is possible without the risk and associated wear of higher compression pistons. No direct experience but seems worth a call to lycon at overhaul time. Would be interested in hearing anyones direct experience.

Pete

Hi Pete

while the power flow is a good alternative to the stock exhaust system... as I understand it, power flow doesn’t actually add hp, it just doesn’t waste as much as the stock untuned system by simply allowing the combustion chamber to empty post combustion gases more efficiently. 

Have around 80 hrs on my power flow. 

[ArtVandelay]

Lycon claims a 5 to 8 hp increase per cylinder with a port & polish & flow match. 220Hp? Add a challenger filter a nd power flow exaust maybe. Seems conservatively 225 is possible without the risk and associated wear of higher compression pistons. No direct experience but seems worth a call to lycon at overhaul time. Would be interested in hearing anyones direct experience.
Pete

Can someone describe in detail what port, polish are and how they can increase HP?
Balancing fuel flow I can understand.


Tom

[carusoam]

Tom,

Port and polish is a nice way to say... mechanically improved airflow through the valves.

It is a technical way to derive more power from an engine that is mass produced...

There are a few ways to derive more power out of an engine... some are more expensive than others...

 

Mass produced engines are open to all kinds of improvements... Continental is known for having some pretty crummy valve challenges in its history...

Mass produced engines also use some limitations that fit mass produced pilots...

Some pilots have engine monitors, and knowledge, and a fist full of AMUs to spend....

There are small ways to improve hp, and there are some larger ways to improve power...

• Lower resistance of airflow entering and exiting the engine... (filter, exhaust, valve work...)
• Increased MP available... (TC, or TN)
• Favorite of this thread... increased compression ratio.  
• Favorite of other threads... ignition timing... 25 in place of 20°btdc if available to your engine...

Then there is the belief that there is no replacement for displacement....

• Go IO550!

Then start the discussion again to improve port and polish, add a pair of snails....

Everything is good until the cash stream starts to dry up....

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... or finance major...

Best regards,

-a-

[Sandman993]

A pilot walks into the engine shop...

Hey! Mr Engine guy, I want my Mooney to go faster!

Engine guy replies...hmmm, Speed costs money Sonny, just how fast would you like to go?

 

That was kinda how it went for me... your experience may vary.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

You can increase the performance of a NA engine by reducing friction, Improving airflow and extracting more energy from the F/A mixture.

Reduce friction: roller lifters, lower viscosity oil.

Improve airflow: port and polish cylinders, tuned exhaust, tuned intake.

Extracting more energy: advance timing, higher compression.

[Sandman993]

IMO, advanced timing causes hard starts on the ground. Perhaps someday, Big brother will approve some sort of electronic ignition for our certified aircraft. The advanced timing comes into play at higher cruise rpms...no?

[carusoam]

Starting timing is driven by the left mag that has the device to adjust timing to be at TDC specifically for starting....

A dead left mag (broken P-lead) makes it a real challenge to start the engine while on the ground....

a slow starter motor adds to the challenges.

Best regards,

-a-

[Sandman993]

Didn’t think our Siamese twin mags had anything... no shower of sparks or nuttin.

i did lose a left mag the other day in flight... reading on it from Kelly aerospace was enlightening (pun). Turns out, the condenser was either quits or, the mag cap wasn’t grounded properly to the mag. This causes the points to spark crazy, get hot, and can and did, in my case...cause the nylon cam follower to melt, which causes the timing to drift forward and eventually they won’t open at all...kaput. The P lead wasn’t a part of the discussion. The above is kinda scary to this puny earthling.

the moral to the story is... Siamese twin mags suck... and again, I don’t understand why the powers that be don’t fast track an electronic ignition for these models. It’s not like there aren’t a bunch out there! The Cessna 200hp  177rg shares this inferior mag setup as well. 

Aviation drags along about 75 years behind on this and other matters imo. 

[rbridges]

On 4/8/2018 at 2:22 PM, ArtVandelay said:

But the Bravo engine costs has to be considered when buying, if you can’t afford to overhaul, you can’t afford the plane.

There was a Rocket (?) in the corner of the hangar at Cole's the last time I was there.  He said the owner couldn't afford to repair the engine, so it sits....